U Colorado or Hastings & Waitlist conundrum Forum

[hannah.roro0401]

I was accepted into Hastings with a 30k annual conditional scholarship- stay in top 75%.
Colorado offered total of 44k split out over 3 years. 24k first year, 10k in subsequent years.

Waitlisted at University of Washington, UC Davis and UC Irvine.

Debating between Hastings and Colorado. Advice?

Then advice on waitlist?

Currently reside in WA, so I'd get in state tuition for UW.

[QContinuum]

I was accepted into Hastings with a 30k annual conditional scholarship- stay in top 75%.
Colorado offered total of 44k split out over 3 years. 24k first year, 10k in subsequent years.

Waitlisted at University of Washington, UC Davis and UC Irvine.

Debating between Hastings and Colorado. Advice?

Then advice on waitlist?

Currently reside in WA, so I'd get in state tuition for UW.

What are your goals out of law school? Do you want to live & work in California or Colorado?

[hannah.roro0401]

I was accepted into Hastings with a 30k annual conditional scholarship- stay in top 75%.
Colorado offered total of 44k split out over 3 years. 24k first year, 10k in subsequent years.

Waitlisted at University of Washington, UC Davis and UC Irvine.

Debating between Hastings and Colorado. Advice?

Then advice on waitlist?

Currently reside in WA, so I'd get in state tuition for UW.

What are your goals out of law school? Do you want to live & work in California or Colorado?

I was hoping to live in CA as I have family there, but CO also was talking about how there's a pocket of alum in the bay area... CO- loans would be about 50k. CA- since it's a conditional scholarship, could range from 66k-122k.

[QContinuum]

I was hoping to live in CA as I have family there, but CO also was talking about how there's a pocket of alum in the bay area... CO- loans would be about 50k. CA- since it's a conditional scholarship, could range from 66k-122k.

Outside of the T13/T20, law schools place locally/in their home state. So I wouldn't attend Colorado with a goal of practicing in CA.

I'm usually allergic to conditional scholarships, but top 75% isn't awful. And I see that only 2 out of 29 students over the past three years had conditional scholarships reduced/eliminated, so it doesn't seem like section stacking is a huge risk at Hastings. But maybe see if you can negotiate away that stipulation anyway.

So, tl;dr: Hastings would be a reasonable choice for certain goals. What kind of lawyer do you see yourself being?

[hannah.roro0401]

I was hoping to live in CA as I have family there, but CO also was talking about how there's a pocket of alum in the bay area... CO- loans would be about 50k. CA- since it's a conditional scholarship, could range from 66k-122k.

Outside of the T13/T20, law schools place locally/in their home state. So I wouldn't attend Colorado with a goal of practicing in CA.

I'm usually allergic to conditional scholarships, but top 75% isn't awful. And I see that only 2 out of 29 students over the past three years had conditional scholarships reduced/eliminated, so it doesn't seem like section stacking is a huge risk at Hastings. But maybe see if you can negotiate away that stipulation anyway.

So, tl;dr: Hastings would be a reasonable choice for certain goals. What kind of lawyer do you see yourself being?

I just wanted to say, thank you for your advice & for your time to answer my questions I am interested in intellectual property, but I've been kind of intimidated and wary of what I've heard about Hastings, as well as the competition in CA- seeing as Hastings isn't the best law school in CA. Whereas CU is the top law school in the state. It just seems like a lot of negatives, and bad job outlook for Hastings graduates? What's your take on that?

Also, how much hope should I put in getting off any of the waitlists at UW, UC Davis & Irvine?

[QContinuum]

I just wanted to say, thank you for your advice & for your time to answer my questions I am interested in intellectual property, but I've been kind of intimidated and wary of what I've heard about Hastings, as well as the competition in CA- seeing as Hastings isn't the best law school in CA. Whereas CU is the top law school in the state. It just seems like a lot of negatives, and bad job outlook for Hastings graduates? What's your take on that?

Also, how much hope should I put in getting off any of the waitlists at UW, UC Davis & Irvine?

Happy to help.

Re: CU vs. Hastings, CU may very well be a "better" law school, but it will place you in Colorado. Don't go to CU if you want to practice outside of Colorado. Just like, for example, Fordham is almost certainly a "better" law school than CU, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone wanting to practice law in Colorado attend Fordham.

Re: IP, do you have a STEM background? If so, what is it?

Re: waitlists, impossible to predict without knowing your LSAC GPA and LSAT score, and whether you're a URM.

[hannah.roro0401]

I just wanted to say, thank you for your advice & for your time to answer my questions I am interested in intellectual property, but I've been kind of intimidated and wary of what I've heard about Hastings, as well as the competition in CA- seeing as Hastings isn't the best law school in CA. Whereas CU is the top law school in the state. It just seems like a lot of negatives, and bad job outlook for Hastings graduates? What's your take on that?

Also, how much hope should I put in getting off any of the waitlists at UW, UC Davis & Irvine?

Happy to help.

Re: CU vs. Hastings, CU may very well be a "better" law school, but it will place you in Colorado. Don't go to CU if you want to practice outside of Colorado. Just like, for example, Fordham is almost certainly a "better" law school than CU, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone wanting to practice law in Colorado attend Fordham.

Re: IP, do you have a STEM background? If so, what is it?

Re: waitlists, impossible to predict without knowing your LSAC GPA and LSAT score, and whether you're a URM.

Do you personally think it's worth going to Hastings, if I ultimately hope to practice in CA? I'm just worried about the intense competition, seeing as there are other UC & CA schools. I don't have a stem background- humanities instead. But I've spoken with some attorneys who also haven't had a stem/ engineer background who talked about going into "soft core" IP. So I was hoping to look into that.

GPA: 3.52, lsat: 161, and I'm Asian.

[Wubbles]

The competition for a California job with California schools will feel even stronger out of a Colorado school than another California school. Additionally, soft IP is VERY hard to get, especially with a humanities degree, and especially out of this level of law school since the types of places that practice it are Big Law firms.

[QContinuum]

Do you personally think it's worth going to Hastings, if I ultimately hope to practice in CA? I'm just worried about the intense competition, seeing as there are other UC & CA schools. I don't have a stem background- humanities instead. But I've spoken with some attorneys who also haven't had a stem/ engineer background who talked about going into "soft core" IP. So I was hoping to look into that.

GPA: 3.52, lsat: 161, and I'm Asian.

Given your goals, you should retake the LSAT as you will need to get into a much higher-ranked school (a T13 or T20) to have a realistic chance at landing "soft IP" positions (which as Wubbles pointed out are primarily found in BigLaw). I would not recommend attending either Hastings or CU.

For example, you'd have a great shot at the T20 with $ with a 167:

[hannah.roro0401]

Do you personally think it's worth going to Hastings, if I ultimately hope to practice in CA? I'm just worried about the intense competition, seeing as there are other UC & CA schools. I don't have a stem background- humanities instead. But I've spoken with some attorneys who also haven't had a stem/ engineer background who talked about going into "soft core" IP. So I was hoping to look into that.

GPA: 3.52, lsat: 161, and I'm Asian.

Given your goals, you should retake the LSAT as you will need to get into a much higher-ranked school (a T13 or T20) to have a realistic chance at landing "soft IP" positions (which as Wubbles pointed out are primarily found in BigLaw). I would not recommend attending either Hastings or CU.

For example, you'd have a great shot at the T20 with $ with a 167:

I don't have the option of retaking the LSAT, so these are my options. Just out of curiosity, are you also applying to law school/ graduated/ currently in law school?

[hannah.roro0401]

The competition for a California job with California schools will feel even stronger out of a Colorado school than another California school. Additionally, soft IP is VERY hard to get, especially with a humanities degree, and especially out of this level of law school since the types of places that practice it are Big Law firms.

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it. I was just curious about your background, are you also applying to law school? Or are you currently attending/ already graduated?

[cavalier1138]

I don't have the option of retaking the LSAT, so these are my options

Why not?

[hannah.roro0401]

I don't have the option of retaking the LSAT, so these are my options

Why not?

Personal reasons, I'm just not able to allocate enough time/ resources to applying again.

[cavalier1138]

I don't have the option of retaking the LSAT, so these are my options

Why not?

Personal reasons, I'm just not able to allocate enough time/ resources to applying again.

And you never will be in a position to to allocate proper time and resources to applying? Law school isn't going anywhere.

[LSATWiz.com]

If section stacking isn’t a risk, the scholarship stipulation does not bother me because you should drop out if you are bottom quarter at a middling law school regardless. In truth, if you were bottom quarter at Hastings, you’d struggle coming out of a t-14 as well.

But I do think you can retake to get similar offers at better schools. Not having money is a bad excuse because you could self-study for next to nothing and get fee waivers to apply.

[LBJ's Hair]

I mean, if you have time to spend three years in law school you have time to retake the LSAT. I understand that you're probably feeling like "man, I don't wanna retake this test, it sucks. I wanna move on with my life and start law school." But here's the thing--if you wanna be in California, you shouldn't go to Colorado for law school. And if you want a BigLaw job, you shouldn't go to Hastings. I know people who went to Hastings. None of them are in BigLaw. Some of them are literally not working in the legal industry. The data tells a similar story.

I was in a similar situation when I was applying--got an LSAT score that wasn't commensurate with the schools that I needed to get into to reach my goals, but felt like I didn't have the time to retake. I ended up delaying my application cycle and entire year, which (at the time) felt like a life-altering decision. I retook, improved my score by 4 points, and got in where I wanted to. It was absolutely the right decision.

Is this a money issue? Consider this: If you can raise your LSAT score by the 7 points, you could probably go to these exact same law schools...completely for free. Or (better option) attend UCLA/USC/UCI.

[QContinuum]

I agree with the above. For the benefit of other 0Ls reading this thread, I just PM'd OP (in response to a PM from her):

I know delaying a cycle sucks. But you need to get into a better school to have a realistic chance of achieving your goals. Rushing to matriculate now could literally ruin the rest of your career and make your goals unachievable. I believe in you - I believe you are fully capable of pulling out 6 more points on the LSAT. Now's the time to believe in yourself.

[hannah.roro0401]

I mean, if you have time to spend three years in law school you have time to retake the LSAT. I understand that you're probably feeling like "man, I don't wanna retake this test, it sucks. I wanna move on with my life and start law school." But here's the thing--if you wanna be in California, you shouldn't go to Colorado for law school. And if you want a BigLaw job, you shouldn't go to Hastings. I know people who went to Hastings. None of them are in BigLaw. Some of them are literally not working in the legal industry. The data tells a similar story.

I was in a similar situation when I was applying--got an LSAT score that wasn't commensurate with the schools that I needed to get into to reach my goals, but felt like I didn't have the time to retake. I ended up delaying my application cycle and entire year, which (at the time) felt like a life-altering decision. I retook, improved my score by 4 points, and got in where I wanted to. It was absolutely the right decision.

Is this a money issue? Consider this: If you can raise your LSAT score by the 7 points, you could probably go to these exact same law schools...completely for free. Or (better option) attend UCLA/USC/UCI.

What were your goals going into law school? Where did you get into, and where did you want to get into the first time you applied?

[Wubbles]

The competition for a California job with California schools will feel even stronger out of a Colorado school than another California school. Additionally, soft IP is VERY hard to get, especially with a humanities degree, and especially out of this level of law school since the types of places that practice it are Big Law firms.

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it. I was just curious about your background, are you also applying to law school? Or are you currently attending/ already graduated?

Currently attending a T13 law school at a 6 figure discount, after improving my LSAT score by over 10 points between my 1st and 2nd take. Retaking changed my life.

[AdieuCali]

The competition for a California job with California schools will feel even stronger out of a Colorado school than another California school. Additionally, soft IP is VERY hard to get, especially with a humanities degree, and especially out of this level of law school since the types of places that practice it are Big Law firms.

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it. I was just curious about your background, are you also applying to law school? Or are you currently attending/ already graduated?

Currently attending a T13 law school at a 6 figure discount, after improving my LSAT score by over 10 points between my 1st and 2nd take. Retaking changed my life.

+1.
I spent about 4 months self-studying the LSAT while working full-time. My spouse was supportive, but wasn't thrilled about losing me 12-15 hours a week. I never cracked the high 150s in PTs, but on test day I got a 160. I could have stopped there and would almost certainly have ended up going to Hastings. But I decided to retake. I purchased 6 hours of private tutoring for $650 and quickly realized that I had been going about studying all wrong. After adjusting my strategy, I got a 169 six months later. Now I'm at a T10 on the other side of the country, but I was able to land a 1L summer associate position in SoCal at a V30.

I don't think private tutoring is necessary by any means, but for me that $650 + a couple hundred more hours of LSAT prep probably gave me a 7-figure return on investment. TBH I regret not retaking again for a shot at the T6.

[QContinuum]

+1.
I spent about 4 months self-studying the LSAT while working full-time. My spouse was supportive, but wasn't thrilled about losing me 12-15 hours a week. I never cracked the high 150s in PTs, but on test day I got a 160. I could have stopped there and would almost certainly have ended up going to Hastings. But I decided to retake. I purchased 6 hours of private tutoring for $650 and quickly realized that I had been going about studying all wrong. After adjusting my strategy, I got a 169 six months later. Now I'm at a T10 on the other side of the country, but I was able to land a 1L summer associate position in SoCal at a V30.

I don't think private tutoring is necessary by any means, but for me that $650 + a couple hundred more hours of LSAT prep probably gave me a 7-figure return on investment. TBH I regret not retaking again for a shot at the T6.

Many thanks for sharing your very inspiring story. And congrats on your success (both on the LSAT and on the 1L SA hunt!).

FWIW, for BigLaw I don't think there's a discernible difference between attending a T10 versus CCN.

[LBJ's Hair]

I mean, if you have time to spend three years in law school you have time to retake the LSAT. I understand that you're probably feeling like "man, I don't wanna retake this test, it sucks. I wanna move on with my life and start law school." But here's the thing--if you wanna be in California, you shouldn't go to Colorado for law school. And if you want a BigLaw job, you shouldn't go to Hastings. I know people who went to Hastings. None of them are in BigLaw. Some of them are literally not working in the legal industry. The data tells a similar story.

I was in a similar situation when I was applying--got an LSAT score that wasn't commensurate with the schools that I needed to get into to reach my goals, but felt like I didn't have the time to retake. I ended up delaying my application cycle and entire year, which (at the time) felt like a life-altering decision. I retook, improved my score by 4 points, and got in where I wanted to. It was absolutely the right decision.

Is this a money issue? Consider this: If you can raise your LSAT score by the 7 points, you could probably go to these exact same law schools...completely for free. Or (better option) attend UCLA/USC/UCI.

What were your goals going into law school? Where did you get into, and where did you want to get into the first time you applied?

170 and strong softs, but weak GPA. I had/have unicorn-like professional goals; going to a lower T14 would have been fine for BigLaw but like, less so in my situation. Plus my LSAT score was below most of my practice tests. I ended up not applying at all that cycle, retook to a 174, and decided on a T6 with a half-scholarship. On track to do what I want to do, everything worked out.

[265489164158]

If you want to do IP and work in CA, go to Hastings. There is no section stacking and it should be very easy to keep your scholarship, or even to increase it after 1L. I think you have a better chance of doing IP work from Hastings than you would if you got off the Davis waitlist, actually. Being in SF is a big advantage over being outside of it. FWIW, I am a Hastings 3L and am grateful that I didn't get off the Davis waitlist before I place my seat deposit at Hastings.

[cavalier1138]

If you want to do IP and work in CA, go to Hastings. There is no section stacking and it should be very easy to keep your scholarship, or even to increase it after 1L. I think you have a better chance of doing IP work from Hastings than you would if you got off the Davis waitlist, actually. Being in SF is a big advantage over being outside of it. FWIW, I am a Hastings 3L and am grateful that I didn't get off the Davis waitlist before I place my seat deposit at Hastings.

Are you saying that you know Hastings students without a STEM background who have scored IP jobs in the San Francisco market?

Also, don't sell 0Ls on the idea that because your school doesn't section-stack, it'll somehow be "easy" to increase their scholarship. That's absurd reasoning. And the 509 makes it clear that OP's scholarship offer is in the upper third of scholarships given out to begin with.

[265489164158]

Are you saying that you know Hastings students without a STEM background who have scored IP jobs in the San Francisco market?

Yes

it'll somehow be "easy" to increase their scholarship

I didn't say it would be easy; I said it would be possible. OP has good stats and may perform well enough to increase the scholarship for years 2 and 3.

I am not "selling" 0Ls anything. I am providing information based on firsthand knowledge. But, I am not saying that attending Hastings is without risk. The reality is, I know of at least two 3Ls who are in the top 10-15% and are qualified, articulate, and personable and still have not secured employment after graduation. Most 3Ls in the top 15% have secured employment with firms or clerkships, but there are no guarantees.