Georgetown vs. Alabama Forum

[dbmtgirl]

Hi everyone,
I am trying to make a decision between going to school at Alabama full ride or Georgetown with no scholarship. I would like to end up practicing in DC, but the sticker price of Georgetown makes it hard to pass up a full ride to a good school. I am able to afford Georgetown, but is there enough of a difference between the two schools to make the cost worth it?
Thanks!

[QContinuum]

Do not attend law school in Alabama if you want to practice in D.C.

What are your other options? You should have more options than just Georgetown at sticker or Alabama for free.

[mmac]

Hi everyone,
I am trying to make a decision between going to school at Alabama full ride or Georgetown with no scholarship. I would like to end up practicing in DC, but the sticker price of Georgetown makes it hard to pass up a full ride to a good school. I am able to afford Georgetown, but is there enough of a difference between the two schools to make the cost worth it?
Thanks!

If those are your only two options definitely Georgetown. Also consider UVA and other T-14 schools for D.C.

[dbmtgirl]

Do not attend law school in Alabama if you want to practice in D.C.

What are your other options? You should have more options than just Georgetown at sticker or Alabama for free.

Vanderbilt and University of Texas are my other options, but not enough in scholarships to turn my head. My lsat was a 168 and I have a 3.6 GPA from a state school, so Georgetown is about as high in the t-14 as I can reach, though I do have a very unique resume and good letters of recommendation.

[QContinuum]

Don't sneer at Vandy... it actually places better than Georgetown. (It's why I've taken to using the terms "T13" and "T20"; Georgetown's still a very strong school, but it's hard to justify characterizing it as a cut above the T20 when it's outplaced by Vandy.)

Here are the BigLaw/federal clerkship placement numbers for your schools (these numbers are particularly relevant since you want to practice in D.C., which is one of the most competitive legal markets to get into):

• Vanderbilt: 67% of the class of 2017 got these jobs.
• Georgetown: 59% of the class of '17 got these jobs.
• Texas: 44%.
• Alabama: 29%.

The difference in placement power is no joke. Out of those four options, Vandy's far and away the best school - and it's given you money! Go to Vandy.

ETA: I also took the liberty of running your numbers through MyLSN, and it looks like you've underestimated yourself:


It looks like you should be able to get into at least one or two of the lower T13, from Michigan down. Did you apply? If not, you should.

Vandy is, IIRC, the best-placing T20. If you don't get into a T13, you should attend Vandy.

[mmac]

Don't sneer at Vandy... it actually places better than Georgetown. (It's why I've taken to using the terms "T13" and "T20"; Georgetown's still a very strong school, but it's hard to justify characterizing it as a cut above the T20 when it's outplaced by Vandy.)

Here are the BigLaw/federal clerkship placement numbers for your schools (these numbers are particularly relevant since you want to practice in D.C., which is one of the most competitive legal markets to get into):

• Vanderbilt: 67% of the class of 2017 got these jobs.
• Georgetown: 59% of the class of '17 got these jobs.
• Texas: 44%.
• Alabama: 29%.

The difference in placement power is no joke. Out of those four options, Vandy's far and away the best school - and it's given you money! Go to Vandy.

ETA: I also took the liberty of running your numbers through MyLSN, and it looks like you've underestimated yourself:

It looks like you should be able to get into at least one or two of the lower T13, from Michigan down. Did you apply? If not, you should.

Vandy is, IIRC, the best-placing T20. If you don't get into a T13, you should attend Vandy.

I think this is generally good advice. I agree that Vanderbilt employment numbers are impressive. Do we know how they place in D.C.? I'm biased as a Georgetown alum, but they have always seemed to me to dominate D.C. (along with other higher-ranked schools). I have a subscription to Law School Reports, so if someone can tell me how to select D.C. I will look at employment numbers for the various schools in D.C. in particular (can't seem to select D.C. on the map).

I also have a question for the OP. How do you know where you're getting in and what your scholarships will be? You may have a Georgetown acceptance, but it will be months before scholarships are offered, let alone finalized. Do you have a Vanderbilt acceptance? I know you don't have a Texas acceptance since no one does. More importantly, you don't know to which other schools you might be accepted. No one on Halloween should be deciding between two schools since the vast majority of decisions have yet to be made, and there's no way your scholarship numbers have been finalized since you haven't had a chance to negotiate yet.

[mmac]

Anyone have thoughts on how to weigh a school's variation in employment numbers? Playing around on Law School Transparency, you see that Vanderbilt's large law school percentage went from 30 in 2014, to 37 in 2015, to 47 in 2016, to 57 in 2017. UT stayed stable at 35% through those years; Georgetown increased from 45 in 2014 to 54 in 2017 (slower rate of increase that seems normal-ish for the economy). Why is Vanderbilt's large firm percentage increasing so much so fast? Is it real? Is it a fluke?

[QContinuum]

Anyone have thoughts on how to weigh a school's variation in employment numbers? Playing around on Law School Transparency, you see that Vanderbilt's large law school percentage went from 30 in 2014, to 37 in 2015, to 47 in 2016, to 57 in 2017. UT stayed stable at 35% through those years; Georgetown increased from 45 in 2014 to 54 in 2017 (slower rate of increase that seems normal-ish for the economy). Why is Vanderbilt's large firm percentage increasing so much so fast? Is it real? Is it a fluke?

Best to look at combined rate of federal clerkships & BigLaw positions, as we can assume folks in federal clerkships could've landed BigLaw had they wanted to. If we look at just one or the other, we're more likely to see year-to-year fluctuations that aren't actually significant.

[mmac]

Anyone have thoughts on how to weigh a school's variation in employment numbers? Playing around on Law School Transparency, you see that Vanderbilt's large law school percentage went from 30 in 2014, to 37 in 2015, to 47 in 2016, to 57 in 2017. UT stayed stable at 35% through those years; Georgetown increased from 45 in 2014 to 54 in 2017 (slower rate of increase that seems normal-ish for the economy). Why is Vanderbilt's large firm percentage increasing so much so fast? Is it real? Is it a fluke?

Best to look at combined rate of federal clerkships & BigLaw positions, as we can assume folks in federal clerkships could've landed BigLaw had they wanted to. If we look at just one or the other, we're more likely to see year-to-year fluctuations that aren't actually significant.

True--looking at the clerkship numbers through those years (2014-2017) on LST, they only vary by a couple percentage points: Vanderbilt 11.3-9.6; Texas 10.5-8.9 and Georgetown 3.5-4.4. So obviously the federal clerkship numbers are not enough to account for a difference of 27 percent at Vanderbilt. The economy is part of it no doubt, but I don't think any other schools are seeing that dramatic a change (I'll look). Thoughts?

[QContinuum]

True--looking at the clerkship numbers through those years (2014-2017) on LST, they only vary by a couple percentage points: Vanderbilt 11.3-9.6; Texas 10.5-8.9 and Georgetown 3.5-4.4. So obviously the federal clerkship numbers are not enough to account for a difference of 27 percent at Vanderbilt. The economy is part of it no doubt, but I don't think any other schools are seeing that dramatic a change (I'll look). Thoughts?

Hmm - interesting. I do think Vandy has been on the rise, anecdotally, and I suppose the employment numbers back that up.

My reason for advising Vandy over Georgetown here isn't solely the 67% vs. the 59%. As you point out, Georgetown has a bit of a home-court advantage in D.C., so given OP's D.C. interest, that probably evens out the two schools in terms of placement power. But OP says Vandy has offered her money, whereas Georgetown hasn't. I think that breaks the tie in favor of Vandy.

P.S. You're right to point out, though, that the timing seems odd. Maybe OP is just running through hypothetical outcomes, although in that case I for one would have appreciated greater clarity in her posts. TLS usually prefers not to address pure hypotheticals, as actual outcomes are not going to completely track any hypothetical, and it can be dangerous for 0Ls to try to extrapolate from advice given regarding a hypothetical.

[mmac]

True--looking at the clerkship numbers through those years (2014-2017) on LST, they only vary by a couple percentage points: Vanderbilt 11.3-9.6; Texas 10.5-8.9 and Georgetown 3.5-4.4. So obviously the federal clerkship numbers are not enough to account for a difference of 27 percent at Vanderbilt. The economy is part of it no doubt, but I don't think any other schools are seeing that dramatic a change (I'll look). Thoughts?

Hmm - interesting. I do think Vandy has been on the rise, anecdotally, and I suppose the employment numbers back that up.

My reason for advising Vandy over Georgetown here isn't solely the 67% vs. the 59%. As you point out, Georgetown has a bit of a home-court advantage in D.C., so given OP's D.C. interest, that probably evens out the two schools in terms of placement power. But OP says Vandy has offered her money, whereas Georgetown hasn't. I think that breaks the tie in favor of Vandy.

P.S. You're right to point out, though, that the timing seems odd. Maybe OP is just running through hypothetical outcomes, although in that case I for one would have appreciated greater clarity in her posts. TLS usually prefers not to address pure hypotheticals, as actual outcomes are not going to completely track any hypothetical, and it can be dangerous for 0Ls to try to extrapolate from advice given regarding a hypothetical.

Yeah, I don't get the OP's timing. Georgetown hasn't offered anyone scholarships yet, so there's no way to know they are not getting a scholarship. I really do want to understand what's happening at Vandy though and why they are having the job growth they are. Some schools improve their job numbers by decreasing the size of the class, but that is not happening there. I don't see any other school with 10% year-over-year big-law percentile growth.