Loyola Chi ($$) or in-state MSU ($$$)/Wayne State ($$$) Forum

[MU2017]

I'm from Michigan, went to undergrad in Wisconsin and I have family and friends in both the Chicago area and South Eastern Michigan.

I got just under 1/2 scholarship covered at Loyola Chicago and my debt just for tuition would be around 80k, (not including COL that adds approximately 20k a year).

I got around 2/3 scholarship from both Wayne State and Michigan State which would run me about 40-50k in debt, (not including COL that would add 15-20k per year for both schools) The scholarship may change after I attempt to negotiate with Wayne and MSU.

Im interested in Healthcare and Family law, not quite sure what specifically yet.

Of course I know that if I go to Loyola Chicago I will be looking at practicing in the Chicago area competing with applicants from Uchicago, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and Champaign. While If I go to law school in Michigan I will practice in Michigan (especially if I go to Wayne), while competing with UMich, Notre Dame (maybe) and others. Retake is not an option

I would love to hear what people think about my choices.

[iknowlaws]

I'm from Michigan, went to undergrad in Wisconsin and I have family and friends in both the Chicago area and South Eastern Michigan.

I got just under 1/2 scholarship covered at Loyola Chicago and my debt just for tuition would be around 80k, (not including COL that adds approximately 20k a year).

I got around 2/3 scholarship from both Wayne State and Michigan State which would run me about 40-50k in debt, (not including COL that would add 15-20k per year for both schools) The scholarship may change after I attempt to negotiate with Wayne and MSU.

Im interested in Healthcare and Family law, not quite sure what specifically yet.

Of course I know that if I go to Loyola Chicago I will be looking at practicing in the Chicago area competing with applicants from Uchicago, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and Champaign. While If I go to law school in Michigan I will practice in Michigan (especially if I go to Wayne), while competing with UMich, Notre Dame (maybe) and others. Retake is not an option

I would love to hear what people think about my choices.

I am a current student at Wayne State University as an undergrad and I was accepted by both law schools with full tuition covered. From what I have heard in admitted student days and from current law students, you can carry a MSU degree father because of its recognition. That being said, Wayne State has a well-networked metro area and Detroit is where the money is to be made in Michigan. Think of the respective markets and where you are comfortable going.

[beinghuman]

If retake is NOT an option, then you should not go to law school.

Given your options and career interests, your debt to income ratio will be too high and given that biglaw would be very difficult for you in case you decide you'd like to do that, you would be spending many many years repaying.... So why do it?

I'm from Michigan, went to undergrad in Wisconsin and I have family and friends in both the Chicago area and South Eastern Michigan.

I got just under 1/2 scholarship covered at Loyola Chicago and my debt just for tuition would be around 80k, (not including COL that adds approximately 20k a year).

I got around 2/3 scholarship from both Wayne State and Michigan State which would run me about 40-50k in debt, (not including COL that would add 15-20k per year for both schools) The scholarship may change after I attempt to negotiate with Wayne and MSU.

Im interested in Healthcare and Family law, not quite sure what specifically yet.

Of course I know that if I go to Loyola Chicago I will be looking at practicing in the Chicago area competing with applicants from Uchicago, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and Champaign. While If I go to law school in Michigan I will practice in Michigan (especially if I go to Wayne), while competing with UMich, Notre Dame (maybe) and others. Retake is not an option

I would love to hear what people think about my choices.

[deadpanic]

Those are all too expensive. It is looking like six figures in debt (definitely for Loyola and most likely for MSU or Wayne St). You will not be able to get a job with a high enough salary to repay that kind of debt.

[beinghuman]

Yes, because at admitted student days, they will give you the most objective and realistic information regarding the school and your job prospects.

I'm from Michigan, went to undergrad in Wisconsin and I have family and friends in both the Chicago area and South Eastern Michigan.

I got just under 1/2 scholarship covered at Loyola Chicago and my debt just for tuition would be around 80k, (not including COL that adds approximately 20k a year).

I got around 2/3 scholarship from both Wayne State and Michigan State which would run me about 40-50k in debt, (not including COL that would add 15-20k per year for both schools) The scholarship may change after I attempt to negotiate with Wayne and MSU.

Im interested in Healthcare and Family law, not quite sure what specifically yet.

Of course I know that if I go to Loyola Chicago I will be looking at practicing in the Chicago area competing with applicants from Uchicago, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and Champaign. While If I go to law school in Michigan I will practice in Michigan (especially if I go to Wayne), while competing with UMich, Notre Dame (maybe) and others. Retake is not an option

I would love to hear what people think about my choices.

I am a current student at Wayne State University as an undergrad and I was accepted by both law schools with full tuition covered. From what I have heard in admitted student days and from current law students, you can carry a MSU degree father because of its recognition. That being said, Wayne State has a well-networked metro area and Detroit is where the money is to be made in Michigan. Think of the respective markets and where you are comfortable going.

[iknowlaws]

Yes, because at admitted student days, they will give you the most objective and realistic information regarding the school and your job prospects.

I'm not sure if that was a shot at me or not, but I did not make any claims on whether they should or not, just the job markets. And at WSU, tuition is only just above 30k per year and the salary prospects in Detroit have a median private sector salary of $67,000. So if they have a 2/3 scholarship on 30k a year and they are able to commute, it could be a positive decision for someone who is passionate about pursuing law. Cash payback outlays could be accelerated and the burden would be minimal if managed well.

[Pomeranian]

Retake

[beinghuman]

It is not a shot at you.
It was a comment on misinformation that law schools tend to spread.
Is the median salary you mention determined based on a representative sample? Orjust those reporting salary and what’s their percentage of the total population? Law schools dont typically tell you that when they present their nice employment numbers.

Those are legitimate questions that prospective students should inquire about and know before committing

Yes, because at admitted student days, they will give you the most objective and realistic information regarding the school and your job prospects.

I'm not sure if that was a shot at me or not, but I did not make any claims on whether they should or not, just the job markets. And at WSU, tuition is only just above 30k per year and the salary prospects in Detroit have a median private sector salary of $67,000. So if they have a 2/3 scholarship on 30k a year and they are able to commute, it could be a positive decision for someone who is passionate about pursuing law. Cash payback outlays could be accelerated and the burden would be minimal if managed well.

[mlcarpet]

Hi!
Commenting a year later because this post relates to the current situation I'm in. I am also interested in health law and I'm currently choosing between Loyola and Wayne, but I did receive a decent amount more money from both schools than it seems you did. The cost of living in Chicago is really holding me back. Where did you end up going? Are you happy with your choice?

[carsondalywashere]

Something the original OP did not also consider is that Loyola Chicago also competes with John Marshall (soon to be UIC), DePaul, and Kent. Chicago is an extremely competitive legal market.

[objctnyrhnr]

Hi!
Commenting a year later because this post relates to the current situation I'm in. I am also interested in health law and I'm currently choosing between Loyola and Wayne, but I did receive a decent amount more money from both schools than it seems you did. The cost of living in Chicago is really holding me back. Where did you end up going? Are you happy with your choice?

...as it should be with those options, even with large schollies. TCR is retake. Sorry.

[Johnnybgoode92]

MI resident here. That may be a conservative estimate of cost of living if you prioritize quality of life.

[platetoe]

MI resident here. That may be a conservative estimate of cost of living if you prioritize quality of life.

Agreed. OP, if you don’t want to commute from Gross Pointe — which would be expensive in itself — or, like, Dearborn and you do not want to live in Midtown, you’re looking at close to 1k+/month for rent. Probably not too much cheaper if you want only a room. Public transportation will cover you most of the time but then you’re adding X hours to your commute each day. Hell of an array of good restaurants around Detroit and outside of Mid, though.

[Anonguy715]

Generally, MSU is better overall for getting a job in MI, while WSU is better for getting a job in Detroit. The difference in either scenario is ultimately not that large, though. In any case, UM students will get first pick and there will be a handful of ND, OSU, and other grads that will be trying to get back home as well.

If you are set on returning to MI, you should eliminate Loyola. COL in Chicago will be immense, the career services won't be as knowledgeable about MI opportunities as MSU/WSU, and you will be met with some skepticism when you try to return. A common issue returning students face is the question of "why didn't you just go to school in MI, if you want to practice in MI?" A student at a school like ND can overcome this issue due to the school's name recognition; a student from Loyola may not be given the same benefit of the doubt.

As for choosing between MSU and WSU, the optimal answer is that you should retake. Cost of attendance is a lot, even on a full scholarship. You will burn money on food, clothes, rent, and other necessities. You'll want to go out to eat, go to the bar, and go to events, as well; it's extremely difficult to go through 3 years of law school while avoiding any "fun" spending. You want to work in healthcare or family law. Those aren't the types of practices conducive to quickly paying off loans. Future you will thank present you for waiting to attend MSU/WSU on a full scholarship. If you take a year or two off to work and study for the LSAT, not only will you be a more attractive candidate on the legal market, but you'll bank some money to help pay for your COL during law school.

Lastly, think about where you want to be in MI. If you are from the Lansing area, MSU has very strong ties to Lansing-area opportunities. The same goes for WSU in metro Detroit. Another consideration is that rent in Lansing is much cheaper than rent in Detroit, unless you're commuting. A difference of $300/mo (or more) really adds up over the course of 3 years.

[Johnnybgoode92]

Generally, MSU is better overall for getting a job in MI, while WSU is better for getting a job in Detroit. The difference in either scenario is ultimately not that large, though. In any case, UM students will get first pick and there will be a handful of ND, OSU, and other grads that will be trying to get back home as well.

If you are set on returning to MI, you should eliminate Loyola. COL in Chicago will be immense, the career services won't be as knowledgeable about MI opportunities as MSU/WSU, and you will be met with some skepticism when you try to return. A common issue returning students face is the question of "why didn't you just go to school in MI, if you want to practice in MI?" A student at a school like ND can overcome this issue due to the school's name recognition; a student from Loyola may not be given the same benefit of the doubt.

As for choosing between MSU and WSU, the optimal answer is that you should retake. Cost of attendance is a lot, even on a full scholarship. You will burn money on food, clothes, rent, and other necessities. You'll want to go out to eat, go to the bar, and go to events, as well; it's extremely difficult to go through 3 years of law school while avoiding any "fun" spending. You want to work in healthcare or family law. Those aren't the types of practices conducive to quickly paying off loans. Future you will thank present you for waiting to attend MSU/WSU on a full scholarship. If you take a year or two off to work and study for the LSAT, not only will you be a more attractive candidate on the legal market, but you'll bank some money to help pay for your COL during law school.

Lastly, think about where you want to be in MI. If you are from the Lansing area, MSU has very strong ties to Lansing-area opportunities. The same goes for WSU in metro Detroit. Another consideration is that rent in Lansing is much cheaper than rent in Detroit, unless you're commuting. A difference of $300/mo (or more) really adds up over the course of 3 years.

Lansing is More fun too.