UVA vs UT vs others for Texas Biglaw Forum

[dallinpackard]

UVA cost of attendance: $125,370
UT cost of attendance: $141,481
Mchigan cost of attendance: $105,058
Duke/Michigan COA is unknown, but likely similar to UVA.
throw in CCN at sticker

I have already received a Dean's scholarship at UVA ($120,000, cutting COA in half), and am assuming for the purposes of this post that I can use it to negotiate for a similar deal at Duke (admitted, financial aid pending), so this is still slightly hypothetical. For reference my stats are 3.6 172.

My goal is to work in Texas as a patent prosecutor/litigator, hopefully at biglaw. I have an EE degree, so I know I am already a decent looking applicant based off of my undergrad. I know that UT reigns in Texas, but I also know that I would need to be around the top third of my class in order to secure a biglaw position. Would UVA be the better choice here? Their clerkship rates are also highly appealing. I threw in CCN because I'll likely have the option of at least one of them at sticker.

Also, I am wondering what the best strategy would be for scholarship reconsideration at UT? I was offered 8k a year, but am hoping they will reconsider given my UVA offer. They open for a one-time reconsideration Feb 1. Should I open up then with UVA, or wait a bit longer to see if other schools come through with better offers?

EDIT: Michigan threw me a curve ball and offered me a ton of money. Thoughts?

[chargers21]

This probably depends on how you rank certain jobs. Is it texas BL > BL > Texas jobs, or tx BL > other TX jobs > other BL? Personally, I would go to UVA/Duke especially if you have strong Texas ties

[okaygo]

How debt adverse are you? I would say your chances of TX big law are equivalent at UVA and UT. Personally, I would go to UVA because it's a great school and an amazing experience, but I am biased.

[dallinpackard]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

[Nagster5]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

[sparkytrainer]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I would say Duke over UVA, given how strong Duke places in Texas. Its a close tossup either way, but from looking into this, Duke has better success in Texas.

[poptart123]

Duke/UVA

[UVA2B]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I would say Duke over UVA, given how strong Duke places in Texas. Its a close tossup either way, but from looking into this, Duke has better success in Texas.

Good job, you actually made me double check this is idiotic. They place similarly in TX (UVA placed more this last class, but we’re talking 5-6%, so basically equal).

Try harder with your homerism.

[sparkytrainer]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I would say Duke over UVA, given how strong Duke places in Texas. Its a close tossup either way, but from looking into this, Duke has better success in Texas.

Good job, you actually made me double check this is idiotic. They place similarly in TX (UVA placed more this last class, but we’re talking 5-6%, so basically equal).

Try harder with your homerism.

Gotta look at the percentage broski, given that UVA(TTTT) has almost double the size of Duke. Plus a Texas SC Justice is a Duke alum.

[UVA2B]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I would say Duke over UVA, given how strong Duke places in Texas. Its a close tossup either way, but from looking into this, Duke has better success in Texas.

Good job, you actually made me double check this is idiotic. They place similarly in TX (UVA placed more this last class, but we’re talking 5-6%, so basically equal).

Try harder with your homerism.

Gotta look at the percentage broski, given that UVA(TTTT) has almost double the size of Duke. Plus a Texas SC Justice is a Duke alum.

I literally just pointed out the percentages of the latest classes. Not to mention that those percentages are both relative to the size of their classes. But reading is hard.

[sparkytrainer]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I would say Duke over UVA, given how strong Duke places in Texas. Its a close tossup either way, but from looking into this, Duke has better success in Texas.

Good job, you actually made me double check this is idiotic. They place similarly in TX (UVA placed more this last class, but we’re talking 5-6%, so basically equal).

Try harder with your homerism.

Gotta look at the percentage broski, given that UVA(TTTT) has almost double the size of Duke. Plus a Texas SC Justice is a Duke alum.

I literally just pointed out the percentages of the latest classes. Not to mention that those percentages are both relative to the size of their classes. But reading is hard.

Naw, just like triggering UVA kids

[UVA2B]

Naw, just like triggering UVA kids

See, there's the big difference here. You've got antagonist petulant children who spit idiocy, and you have those of us who want to offer advice based on facts and reality. If Duke is cheaper=Duke. If UVA is cheaper=UVA. If they're equal, pick whichever school feels like the better fit. They have similar placement power.

[landshoes]

Come back when you have offers. Lower/equal ranked schools don't always agree about what scholarships they "should" offer, either because they've run out of money or they have different gaps in their class to fill.

[emkay625]

Thank you both for the replies! My goals are TX biglaw > TX other > biglaw non-Texas. That being said, I do have incredible Texas ties (wife and I are both Houstonians and our families are both there.) I am also okay with some debt, and was already considering UVA without the scolly. I'm leaning heavily on UVA now, and appreciate your input:) I'll probably ask something similar again once I have more solid alternatives.

UVA 100% for lots of reasons, not the least of which is UT gives Ds/Fs.

I don't know what it takes to get an F. Only one F was given out to anyone, in any section, my entire 1L year. You would have to like.....not show up the entire semester and not show up for the final either. Same thing for a D. I don't think anyone got a D, in anything, all year. So not sure where your information is coming from. UVA's grading policy also says it gives out Ds and Fs, as well.

[emkay625]

Turned down UVA for UT and had similar priorities (TX big law > any Texas job > job elsewhere). Happy with my choice a year into practicing. Got the job I wanted. Feel free to PM me.

[Roy McAvoy]

A lot of big law firms are moving away from patent pros, so unless you’re also interested in litigation I wouldn’t throw all your eggs in the big law basket. There are firms that will still pay some big money for patent pros (especially EE), but they’re mostly boutiques and some won’t pay market.

With that said though, you should be able to get to any of those firms from UT, UVA, Duke, or CCN. You’ll be in good shape. PM me if you have any other questions.

[dallinpackard]

A lot of big law firms are moving away from patent pros, so unless you’re also interested in litigation I wouldn’t throw all your eggs in the big law basket. There are firms that will still pay some big money for patent pros (especially EE), but they’re mostly boutiques and some won’t pay market.

With that said though, you should be able to get to any of those firms from UT, UVA, Duke, or CCN. You’ll be in good shape. PM me if you have any other questions.

Okay, say I am interested in Litigation. Let's actually get to the root of it: I am interested in becoming a judge one day. I know its a pipe-dream and there's not a lot I can do to ensure that future, but it is a major aspiration of mine. I would assume litigation experience would be very important, and I would imagine that a clerkship would also be helpful. This makes me think that UVA would be a better decision, but what do you (y'all) think?

Update: Accepted at UT, but still awaiting financial aid.

[poptart123]

A lot of big law firms are moving away from patent pros, so unless you’re also interested in litigation I wouldn’t throw all your eggs in the big law basket. There are firms that will still pay some big money for patent pros (especially EE), but they’re mostly boutiques and some won’t pay market.

With that said though, you should be able to get to any of those firms from UT, UVA, Duke, or CCN. You’ll be in good shape. PM me if you have any other questions.

Okay, say I am interested in Litigation. Let's actually get to the root of it: I am interested in becoming a judge one day. I know its a pipe-dream and there's not a lot I can do to ensure that future, but it is a major aspiration of mine. I would assume litigation experience would be very important, and I would imagine that a clerkship would also be helpful. This makes me think that UVA would be a better decision, but what do you (y'all) think?

Update: Accepted at UT, but still awaiting financial aid.

Hard to say, but all state judges in Texas are elected. Duke/UT probably carry the same name weight for political purposes in Texas. Some people know UVA is good, but more likely than not they know UT and Duke as at least just as good as UVA. The federal judiciary is a pipe dream that you probably can't plan on when merely choosing a law school. UT has decent clerkship numbers, but not as good as UVA.

[dallinpackard]

A lot of big law firms are moving away from patent pros, so unless you’re also interested in litigation I wouldn’t throw all your eggs in the big law basket. There are firms that will still pay some big money for patent pros (especially EE), but they’re mostly boutiques and some won’t pay market.

With that said though, you should be able to get to any of those firms from UT, UVA, Duke, or CCN. You’ll be in good shape. PM me if you have any other questions.

Okay, say I am interested in Litigation. Let's actually get to the root of it: I am interested in becoming a judge one day. I know its a pipe-dream and there's not a lot I can do to ensure that future, but it is a major aspiration of mine. I would assume litigation experience would be very important, and I would imagine that a clerkship would also be helpful. This makes me think that UVA would be a better decision, but what do you (y'all) think?

Update: Accepted at UT, but still awaiting financial aid.

Hard to say, but all state judges in Texas are elected. Duke/UT probably carry the same name weight for political purposes in Texas. Some people know UVA is good, but more likely than not they know UT and Duke as at least just as good as UVA. The federal judiciary is a pipe dream that you probably can't plan on when merely choosing a law school. UT has decent clerkship numbers, but not as good as UVA.

It's so funny how federal judgeships work. My grandpa had a friend in his 20's who then later ended up working for Reagan and recommended my grandpa to him, and so now he's a senior federal judge and is kind of my inspiration, but I understand how anecdotal his story is. It's just interesting to see how things like that happen. I'm honestly not expecting either school to match UVA's offer though, but will reconsider once more financial aid is available.

[trmckenz]

If you want to get hired as an IP Associate in TX biglaw, you should go to UT and save your money. EEs are in high demand, so you'll be fine with any of these schools. Plenty of firms allow you to do both patent prosecution and litigation. I don't see how going to UT could possibly be a disadvantage for becoming a judge in Texas. It sounds like you want to go to UVA though, and that's not a wrong decision per se (maybe inefficient at worst?).

[dallinpackard]

If you want to get hired as an IP Associate in TX biglaw, you should go to UT and save your money. EEs are in high demand, so you'll be fine with any of these schools. Plenty of firms allow you to do both patent prosecution and litigation. I don't see how going to UT could possibly be a disadvantage for becoming a judge in Texas. It sounds like you want to go to UVA though, and that's not a wrong decision per se (maybe inefficient at worst?).

Thank you for your advice. I'm definitely leaning towards UVA, but UT honestly does have a LOT going for it. My wife and son will be close enough to home (Houston) for regular visits, and my wife adores Austin. I think I am partially prone to UVA because I over-performed on the LSAT and am extremely tempted by some of these schools that I never thought I'd have a chance at. And then the scholarship came as a big selling point. But I definitely see the wisdom in UT. It would just kinda suck to get below median grades at UT and strike out of BigLaw/clerkship chances.

[BlackAndOrange84]

If you want to get hired as an IP Associate in TX biglaw, you should go to UT and save your money. EEs are in high demand, so you'll be fine with any of these schools. Plenty of firms allow you to do both patent prosecution and litigation. I don't see how going to UT could possibly be a disadvantage for becoming a judge in Texas. It sounds like you want to go to UVA though, and that's not a wrong decision per se (maybe inefficient at worst?).

I've gotta say I agree here. I'm not sure anybody here has made a solid case for UVA/Duke over UT when they'll both leave you in more debt, make your job search more of a pain in the ass (admittedly, this isn't a huge deal, but it's something), and most importantly you'll have less opportunity to develop relationships with people who will mostly be practicing in Texas (which may not matter for getting the job you want but will matter down the line). For long-term, state-specific goals, the network you gain by going to the state flagship matters. And assuming you don't go to YHS, you're not going to really stand out from any other expat Texans looking to return from a T13.

[A. Nony Mouse]

A lot of big law firms are moving away from patent pros, so unless you’re also interested in litigation I wouldn’t throw all your eggs in the big law basket. There are firms that will still pay some big money for patent pros (especially EE), but they’re mostly boutiques and some won’t pay market.

With that said though, you should be able to get to any of those firms from UT, UVA, Duke, or CCN. You’ll be in good shape. PM me if you have any other questions.

Okay, say I am interested in Litigation. Let's actually get to the root of it: I am interested in becoming a judge one day. I know its a pipe-dream and there's not a lot I can do to ensure that future, but it is a major aspiration of mine. I would assume litigation experience would be very important, and I would imagine that a clerkship would also be helpful. This makes me think that UVA would be a better decision, but what do you (y'all) think?

Update: Accepted at UT, but still awaiting financial aid.

You can become a judge out of either school. The kinds of things that lead to someone becoming a judge don't depend on going to one excellent law school over another; there's way too much time between this choice and that possibility. And if you don't end up with the grades for clerking etc. at UT you probably wouldn't be particularly more competitive coming from UVA.

[principalagent]

Not to hi-jack this conversation again, but for someone else who wants 1) to clerk and 2) to go into litigation in Texas, does a Dillard change the calculus? Charlottesville is also a little cheaper than Austin (on the whole), so is there any significant networking advantage gained by going to UT versus a better clerkship rate and other potential intangibles offered by UVA? Financial aid at UT is also pending in my case, and I’m also not averse to starting off in a different market, then lateraling back, but Texas is the goal.

[chargers21]

Not to hi-jack this conversation again, but for someone else who wants 1) to clerk and 2) to go into litigation in Texas, does a Dillard change the calculus? Charlottesville is also a little cheaper than Austin (on the whole), so is there any significant networking advantage gained by going to UT versus a better clerkship rate and other potential intangibles offered by UVA? Financial aid at UT is also pending in my case, and I’m also not averse to starting off in a different market, then lateraling back, but Texas is the goal.

Dillard at UVA and it's not even close