UConn (75%) vs. Brooklyn (90K) vs. Cardozo (30K) Forum

[CB19]

Although if I'm being really honest, I think you're wasting your v3 contacts if you go to any of these schools (since your dream is biglaw). And I say this as someone who's going to UConn and pretty optimistic about it.

Thanks for your thoughts. Wasting them in what sense? Just curious. Also, coincidentally, one of these contacts is a Brooklyn grad and one is a UConn grad.

Do your contacts have influence over hiring decisions, like one of them is on the firm's hiring committee who would forego their normal hiring criteria just to hire you? If not, your contacts are being wasted because you don't have a reasonable shot at putting yourself in a V3 at UCONN or Brooklyn or Cardozo because you'd have to be top of your class to qualify for those positions at all (and more realistically, if your contacts don't have some influence over the hiring process, they aren't being wasted at all because they were never going to get you hired to begin with).

No, I do not believe the ones that I mentioned who are alumni have much influence over hiring decisions, except that one of them conducts interviews at one of the schools. Another contact I have whom I worked with very closely is, in fact, on the hiring committee. I wasn't expecting that they were going to "get me hired," but it is better to have contacts than to not have contacts.

[Npret]

You should look at the summer classes these firms have taken, not at where a couple of partners went to school.

[CB19]

Although if I'm being really honest, I think you're wasting your v3 contacts if you go to any of these schools (since your dream is biglaw). And I say this as someone who's going to UConn and pretty optimistic about it.

Thanks for your thoughts. Wasting them in what sense? Just curious. Also, coincidentally, one of these contacts is a Brooklyn grad and one is a UConn grad.

Wasting them in the sense that you'd go straight from law school to the firm, that just is extremely unlikely to happen and is definitely not something you can bank on going into the law schools you are considering. I'm not saying contacts are a bad thing, but there really is a limit on what they can do for you.

That's pretty cool to see alumni from those schools though! Do you happen to know the route they took to the v3?

One of them was straight out of law school, and the other had a federal clerkship (yes, I am aware that this, not his tier 2/3 degree, is what got him the v3 job).

[grades??]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

[UVA2B]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

It's a little premature to see 39 pages of inanity coming out of this. Plus ferris built up a solid book of work in recommending others make life-altering and horrible decisions.

[grades??]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

It's a little premature to see 39 pages of inanity coming out of this. Plus ferris built up a solid book of work in recommending others make life-altering and horrible decisions.

Yes I know its premature, but you wanna get in on the ground floor right? More room for growth potential.

[Rigo]

Retake the LSAT. It's obvious you want to go to a higher caliber school and biglaw.

[CB19]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know? I honestly debated whether I should even post on here because I was afraid of being attacked like this.

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

[grades??]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

[CB19]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

Your advice has been noted, not ignored.

[UVA2B]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know? I honestly debated whether I should even post on here because I was afraid of being attacked like this.

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

You're getting harsh reality advice, and most have even given a "least bad" choice before telling you to retake for your goals. The harsh reality is that you don't have good options for reaching your goals, and certainly have bad goals for the levels of debt you're talking about.

So while you have options on the table, are you more willing to change your options to improve your chances at your goals, or are you more willing to relent on your goals? Because you have to do one of them.

[grades??]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

Your advice has been noted, not ignored.

Well that will be the advice of the people who actually have gone through law school and have experienced the hiring market. If you want big/mid law, none of these are good choices. If you are okay working a 50k job (if you get a job at all), then sure pick the cheapest option.

[Rigo]

Do the people who go to these law schools cling to their TOP undergrad their entire life? Is it the most enduring yet meaningless way to signal superiority?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Which ones pay $80k first year? The small firms, or the midsize firms? Because unless Portland has some insane economic structure that allows them to pay almost double the market rate of any other region for small firms, I'm betting it's the midsize firms (which I'm also betting are the Portland equivalent of "biglaw" in a market that size).

By "small to midsize" I am referring to the same core set of 5 or 6 firms that each employ 50-150 attorneys. They are large by Maine standards, but I don't know if they would be considered small or midsize by national standards.

These are going to be the top firms in the market, and $80k first year is going to be among the best possible outcomes, salary-wise, in Portland. It's a really small market (being the biggest in Maine doesn't change that) with correspondingly small firms and low salaries. The people competing for those jobs will be the top students at U Maine, maybe the same from UNH, BU & BC, and T14 types who are from Maine and want to return home.

So the thing is that this isn't an outcome you'd be okay with, this is going to be one of the best possible outcomes out of the U of Maine.

(also, MN is going to make it much harder to get back to the northeast.)

[A. Nony Mouse]

Do the people who go to these law schools cling to their TOP undergrad their entire life? Is it the most enduring yet meaningless way to signal superiority?

TBF, you know the northeast. This is super common.

[CB19]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

Your advice has been noted, not ignored.

Well that will be the advice of the people who actually have gone through law school and have experienced the hiring market. If you want big/mid law, none of these are good choices. If you are okay working a 50k job (if you get a job at all), then sure pick the cheapest option.

Of the graduates from these schools, who are the people who end up with no job, and who are the people who end up with a 50K job (not including Maine Law since that is an outlier)? Is it the very bottom of the class who can't find a job (this is what the numbers seem to indicate), and would you say the bottom 75% is who gets stuck with a 50K job, or is it a greater percentage of the class?

[UVA2B]

Do the people who go to these law schools cling to their TOP undergrad their entire life? Is it the most enduring yet meaningless way to signal superiority?

Does anyone cling to Carleton College for signaling superiority (the only reasonably "Top 10 UG" in MN)? It's a good LAC, but I don't know how one would cling to some semblance of prestige when they're 50 and doing their own accounting for their 3 person firm they started with a couple of law school graduate buddies because they missed out on more established firms, forced into family law or personal injury claims.

[CB19]

Which ones pay $80k first year? The small firms, or the midsize firms? Because unless Portland has some insane economic structure that allows them to pay almost double the market rate of any other region for small firms, I'm betting it's the midsize firms (which I'm also betting are the Portland equivalent of "biglaw" in a market that size).

By "small to midsize" I am referring to the same core set of 5 or 6 firms that each employ 50-150 attorneys. They are large by Maine standards, but I don't know if they would be considered small or midsize by national standards.

These are going to be the top firms in the market, and $80k first year is going to be among the best possible outcomes, salary-wise, in Portland. It's a really small market (being the biggest in Maine doesn't change that) with correspondingly small firms and low salaries. The people competing for those jobs will be the top students at U Maine, maybe the same from UNH, BU & BC, and T14 types who are from Maine and want to return home.

So the thing is that this isn't an outcome you'd be okay with, this is going to be one of the best possible outcomes out of the U of Maine.

(also, MN is going to make it much harder to get back to the northeast.)

I should have clarified that this is an outcome I would be thrilled to have.

[UVA2B]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

Your advice has been noted, not ignored.

Well that will be the advice of the people who actually have gone through law school and have experienced the hiring market. If you want big/mid law, none of these are good choices. If you are okay working a 50k job (if you get a job at all), then sure pick the cheapest option.

Of the graduates from these schools, who are the people who end up with no job, and who are the people who end up with a 50K job (not including Maine Law since that is an outlier)? Is it the very bottom of the class who can't find a job (this is what the numbers seem to indicate), and would you say the bottom 75% is who gets stuck with a 50K job, or is it a greater percentage of the class?

Kind of, with some variability. Law school grading will mostly place graduates into sort of "tiers" of grades. There will be the top graduates who kill law school for three years. A generally really big blob of students around the median GPA (with a pretty tight standard of deviation). And then those that struggle and end up significantly below the median GPA. The ones not getting jobs are from that last tier generally.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Have you looked at Law School Transparency's employment stats? It gives a breakdown by salary and kind of employer and so on.

Generally (but not universally) the people who get biglaw/the equivalent are going to be at the top of the class, grades-wise, because that's what those employers value. Once you get out of that category of jobs, employment will likely be based more on networking, connections, and experience than strictly grades, so it's hard to say whether people who get those jobs had good or bad grades.

[grades??]

Honestly this thread reeks of immaturity in OP having no idea about the legal market and how these schools will limit his employability. This is literally Ferris 2.0 minus the lack of driving

I came to the forum seeking advice about which law school to attend. I realize biglaw is a big stretch for me, but I am setting a goal for myself. I don't appreciate being called immature, and I don't know what "Ferris 2.0" means. Is it possible to offer advice, even if it is of the "harsh reality" variety, without also including personal attacks against people you don't know?

The process of taking the LSAT and applying to law school has been a long and stressful one, and I am actually happy that I have a few options. Please refrain from throwing personal attacks at me. I would appreciate that very much.

I did post advice, which you promptly ignored. In fact, you have ignored everyone who has suggested these schools don't match your school choices. So either you change school choices (by retaking) or you change goals.

Your advice has been noted, not ignored.

Well that will be the advice of the people who actually have gone through law school and have experienced the hiring market. If you want big/mid law, none of these are good choices. If you are okay working a 50k job (if you get a job at all), then sure pick the cheapest option.

Of the graduates from these schools, who are the people who end up with no job, and who are the people who end up with a 50K job (not including Maine Law since that is an outlier)? Is it the very bottom of the class who can't find a job (this is what the numbers seem to indicate), and would you say the bottom 75% is who gets stuck with a 50K job, or is it a greater percentage of the class?

Take for example UConn- only 59% of the last class with data (2015) work as lawyers. That means 41%!!!!!! DO NOT WORK AS LAWYERS (not by their own choice, because why go to law school then). You have a general coin flip chance at ever being a lawyer. So only half the class is working as lawyers, fighting for those 50k jobs. Only the top 5% or so even has a shot at a better outcome. So its not a matter of being at the bottom of the class. Its a matter of luck, curve, and hoping there is ANY legal job.

Source: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/uconn/jobs/

[Rigo]

Do the people who go to these law schools cling to their TOP undergrad their entire life? Is it the most enduring yet meaningless way to signal superiority?

TBF, you know the northeast. This is super common.

True. I guess my point is to go to a law school you can be proud of that will help you achieve your goals.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Re: Carleton - yup, people do cling to that (it's a great school with a great reputation.

But also that's not really fair - lots of people show up to TLS believing that the ranking/quality of their undergrad matters for ls admissions, because it matters for a lot of other things, so saying "top 10 undergrad" is just a way of conveying information they think is necessary, not necessarily bragging.

[UVA2B]

Re: Carleton - yup, people do cling to that (it's a great school with a great reputation.

But also that's not really fair - lots of people show up to TLS believing that the ranking/quality of their undergrad matters for ls admissions, because it matters for a lot of other things, so saying "top 10 undergrad" is just a way of conveying information they think is necessary, not necessarily bragging.

Absolutely fair, it's hard to remember the days before being initiated in this little hive mind/reality.

[grades??]

I love when OP's disappear when finally confronted with facts and data. Makes me miss Ferris so much, because like our President, he could care less about facts and data