Harvard (waitlist) v. Stanford (waitlist) v. UVA (Dillard) Forum

[Anxious-Undergrad]

Hi fellow TLS-ers! I need some help. I am currently on the waitlist at Harvard and Stanford, but have been awarded the Dillard at UVA. I am uncertain if I should stay on the waitlists or if I would even go to Stanford or Harvard if I got in.

Long-term goals include clerkship (maybe for a few years) and likely big law; maybe JAG or politics at some point, being a judge would be pretty cool as well.
Location: No really preference; I would be happy anywhere. I am from California, but spent the last fours years at an IVY-League on the East Coast.
Cost: Money is a slight factor, but fortunately I do not think I will have to take out loans.

UVA
Pros: COA (low), Dillard is a honor (with some perks), Solid clerks, Big-Sports, semester system, Charlottesville is beautiful, better shot at getting on Law Review/ involved in organizations, Softball

Cons: Grades, medium-class sizes, less prestigious, less valuable degree?, too fratty (unlikely to bother me)

Stanford
Pros: Size, Teacher-Faculty ratio, employment prospects, Big-Sports, Solid clerks, no grades, better shot at getting on Law Review (small school), tons of organizational and publication opportunities

Cons: COA (Will cost $200,000+) Quarter-system, Worried about the eccentricities of fellow students, (I am not interested in environmental, patent, tech law), Could feel isolated, little interest in being in Bay Area long-term

Harvard
Pros: It is Harvard, great clerkships, I have a good understanding of Ivy-league culture, incredible possibilities, semester system

Cons: COA (Will cost $200,000+), HUGE school and class sizes, not huge fan of cambridge, competition and culture, poor shot at getting on Law Review, only so many organizations/publications to go around (1900+ students)

I have some tough calls and would love to hear what you all have to say.

Thanks!

[Dr. Nefario]

How would you be financing H/S without loans? Is it a parent? Savings? etc. Dillard is an amazing opportunity, but obviously H/S would be better for your clerkship goal. But with your goals and wanting to keep cost low, I'd take the Dillard if you were gonna end up spending your own savings for H/S.

[TAD]

I have some tough calls

Thanks!

Tbf, you don't really have a tough call. Most people would agree that you should take Dillard rather than stick it out for the opportunity to pay sticker, even if it's not in loans. Oh and you're looking at closer to 300k.

[Po$eidon]

If you're not taking out loans then how are you paying? That seems important. Stanford is a beast with clerkships and you don't have to worry about being stuck in the bay area with them cuz you can do whatever w/that degree. But money matters a lot so knowing that helps.

Also, this is waaaay premature. You have to get off the waitlists (not a slam-dunk) first. Also also UVA is awesome and the Dillard is salivatingly good. This comes down to your financial situation and what happens over the summer

[BlendedUnicorn]

Run, don't walk, to uva and tell H and S to fuck off.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I don't think this is a tough call at all. UVA.

(Also being in the Ivy League and actually caring about that gives a pretty distorted view. UVA is plenty prestigious in the legal world.)

[zot1]

UVA
Pros: COA (low), Dillard is a honor (with some perks), Solid clerks, Big-Sports, semester system, Charlottesville is beautiful, better shot at getting on Law Review/ involved in organizations, Softball

Cons: Grades, medium-class sizes, less prestigious, less valuable degree?, too fratty (unlikely to bother me), that humidity tho...

Thanks!

FTFY

[mjb447]

Agree with the UVA consensus (unless the H/S money is only available for school or something and you're going to lose it otherwise?). Your goals, particularly in the short and medium term, are completely achievable from UVA.

[UVA2B]

Hi fellow TLS-ers! I need some help. I am currently on the waitlist at Harvard and Stanford, but have been awarded the Dillard at UVA. I am uncertain if I should stay on the waitlists or if I would even go to Stanford or Harvard if I got in.

Long-term goals include clerkship (maybe for a few years) and likely big law; maybe JAG or politics at some point, being a judge would be pretty cool as well.
Location: No really preference; I would be happy anywhere. I am from California, but spent the last fours years at an IVY-League on the East Coast.
Cost: Money is a slight factor, but fortunately I do not think I will have to take out loans.

UVA
Pros: COA (low), Dillard is a honor (with some perks), Solid clerks, Big-Sports, semester system, Charlottesville is beautiful, better shot at getting on Law Review/ involved in organizations, Softball

Cons: Grades, medium-class sizes, less prestigious, less valuable degree?, too fratty (unlikely to bother me)

Stanford
Pros: Size, Teacher-Faculty ratio, employment prospects, Big-Sports, Solid clerks, no grades, better shot at getting on Law Review (small school), tons of organizational and publication opportunities

Cons: COA (Will cost $200,000+) Quarter-system, Worried about the eccentricities of fellow students, (I am not interested in environmental, patent, tech law), Could feel isolated, little interest in being in Bay Area long-term

Harvard
Pros: It is Harvard, great clerkships, I have a good understanding of Ivy-league culture, incredible possibilities, semester system

Cons: COA (Will cost $200,000+), HUGE school and class sizes, not huge fan of cambridge, competition and culture, poor shot at getting on Law Review, only so many organizations/publications to go around (1900+ students)

I have some tough calls and would love to hear what you all have to say.

Thanks!

This is an easy choice for UVA, but the bolded should not be on your mind and aren't really true. Getting law review anywhere is really hard, and being a Dillard and having slightly higher LSAT/GPA than your classmates does not automatically translate to getting better law school grades. Plenty of Dillards miss out on law review. I guess you could claim it might be marginally (like <5%) easier at UVA than Harvard or Stanford, but not enough easier that it should even be a consideration in picking between them.

And the fratty thing is just way overblown. People tend to be friendly at the law school, which is entirely separate from the undergrad that is slightly more fratty. Having visited most of these peer schools, I thought UVA students were maybe nicer at the margins, but never once have I thought to myself how fratty my classmates were (and I'm decidedly not fratty at all).

[UVA2B]

UVA
Pros: COA (low), Dillard is a honor (with some perks), Solid clerks, Big-Sports, semester system, Charlottesville is beautiful, better shot at getting on Law Review/ involved in organizations, Softball

Cons: Grades, medium-class sizes, less prestigious, less valuable degree?, too fratty (unlikely to bother me), that humidity tho...

Thanks!

FTFY

This is fair tho

[lymenheimer]

Deposit at uva because its a great school, and dont assume you will get off the waitlists. If you get off a waitlist, then approach the question. If youre disappointing yourself with the outcome you received at uva, without another preferred option available, youre screwing yourself.

[Pure Applesauce]

Seriously another one of these?

This is not hard.

Take the Dillard. Do it. Do it now.

[grades??]

Honestly this one is actually so easy everyone is on the same page. Take the Dillard and don't look back.

[xtremenite]

I am from California, but spent the last fours years at an IVY-League on the East Coast.

I'm in a similar position to you, OP. Grew up on the west coast and went to a ivy-league school in New England. Go to UVA. UVA is very well-respected by lawyers and the legal profession, even if it isn't "ivy-league."

[dirac]

If you're not taking out loans then how are you paying? That seems important. Stanford is a beast with clerkships and you don't have to worry about being stuck in the bay area with them cuz you can do whatever w/that degree. But money matters a lot so knowing that helps.

Also, this is waaaay premature. You have to get off the waitlists (not a slam-dunk) first. Also also UVA is awesome and the Dillard is salivatingly good. This comes down to your financial situation and what happens over the summer

Stanford's clerkship number is dropping year by year and Class 2016 is not much more stellar compared with UChicago and Harvard. I agree with you Dillard is salivatingly good and believe it is an easy choice here.

[RedPurpleBlue]

If you're not taking out loans then how are you paying? That seems important. Stanford is a beast with clerkships and you don't have to worry about being stuck in the bay area with them cuz you can do whatever w/that degree. But money matters a lot so knowing that helps.

Also, this is waaaay premature. You have to get off the waitlists (not a slam-dunk) first. Also also UVA is awesome and the Dillard is salivatingly good. This comes down to your financial situation and what happens over the summer

Stanford's clerkship number is dropping year by year and Class 2016 is not much more stellar compared with UChicago and Harvard. I agree with you Dillard is salivatingly good and believe it is an easy choice here.

Yeah, UVA basically has the same clerkship numbers as Duke, Chi and Harvard this year. In general, Chi, UVA, and Harvard are in about the same 15-20% FC tier; Duke is just having a weird year. My point is that Harvard wouldn't even offer any real FC advantage. Stanford 24.6% is basically alone in the mid-20s tier, and Yale clearly towers at top in the low-30s tier.

UVA 14.5%
Duke 15.6%
UChi 16.7%
Harvard 19.2%
Stanford 24.6%
Yale 34.0%

All of that being said, even if you got off the WL at Stanford, it wouldn't be work the extra $200k in debt. A lot of clerkship numbers are self-selection, so the real difference between UVA and Stanford are probably not that significant. If you work hard, you could get a FC at any of those schools (UVA, H, S), so you might as well pick the cheapest (and the only one you are actually admitted to at the moment.

[Anxious-Undergrad]

How would you be financing H/S without loans? Is it a parent? Savings? etc. Dillard is an amazing opportunity, but obviously H/S would be better for your clerkship goal. But with your goals and wanting to keep cost low, I'd take the Dillard if you were gonna end up spending your own savings for H/S.

Not my own money. A combination of parents and other resources.

[T3TON]

Stanford's clerkship number is dropping year by year and Class 2016 is not much more stellar compared with UChicago and Harvard. I agree with you Dillard is salivatingly good and believe it is an easy choice here.

Clerkships are too volatile and Yale and Stanford are too small to jump to conclusions like this. Just two years ago Stanford outplaced Yale in the percentage of grads who went straight into federal clerkships. Does that mean Yale's clerkship numbers are slipping too?

Two factors are often overlooked when comparing percentages.
(1) Its increasingly common for people to clerk after a year or two of real experience. This masks each school's true placement percentage.
(2) For schools this good, quality of clerkships often matters more than quantity. Most students could find a federal clerkship somewhere. However they tend to target the most competitive circuits.

These differences arent worth 200k+ for most students but it sounds like OP would be getting a free ride without burning his/her own assets. Theres no reason not to ride out the waitlists.

[Po$eidon]

If you're not taking out loans then how are you paying? That seems important. Stanford is a beast with clerkships and you don't have to worry about being stuck in the bay area with them cuz you can do whatever w/that degree. But money matters a lot so knowing that helps.

Also, this is waaaay premature. You have to get off the waitlists (not a slam-dunk) first. Also also UVA is awesome and the Dillard is salivatingly good. This comes down to your financial situation and what happens over the summer

Stanford's clerkship number is dropping year by year and Class 2016 is not much more stellar compared with UChicago and Harvard. I agree with you Dillard is salivatingly good and believe it is an easy choice here.

I don't think you can make a trend out of SLS' numbers. They're inarguably strong there. If OP is loaded and hell-bent on that SLS is defensible (I wouldn't but I'm cheap).

[Dr. Nefario]

How would you be financing H/S without loans? Is it a parent? Savings? etc. Dillard is an amazing opportunity, but obviously H/S would be better for your clerkship goal. But with your goals and wanting to keep cost low, I'd take the Dillard if you were gonna end up spending your own savings for H/S.

Not my own money. A combination of parents and other resources.

Eh. In that case I'd deposit at UVA and sit on the waitlists.

[Po$eidon]

How would you be financing H/S without loans? Is it a parent? Savings? etc. Dillard is an amazing opportunity, but obviously H/S would be better for your clerkship goal. But with your goals and wanting to keep cost low, I'd take the Dillard if you were gonna end up spending your own savings for H/S.

Not my own money. A combination of parents and other resources.

Eh. In that case I'd deposit at UVA and sit on the waitlists.

I think this is right