Berkeley v. Chicago v. Penn Forum

[genjustice]

-------

[Veil of Ignorance]

Is this 50k a year or total?

[poptart123]

Put some ties in Cali

[genjustice]

Is this 50k a year or total?

Total - sorry should've been more clear.

[UVA2B]

I'm a little confused here on your goals: you're interested in federal government, biglaw litigation, but are planning on relying on loan forgiveness? FedGov would apply to an LRAP, but the biglaw red herring is kind of throwing me off. And that's compounded by being 100% positive you want to be in CA for work. Are you wanting to go into FedGov with the intent of lateraling into Biglaw ten years down the road after your loans are forgiven? If that's your goal/plan, then I would suggest Chicago for the best chance of achieving your goal of FedGov jobs, but those won't be in CA for the next decade following graduation more than likely.

If what you want most is CA work immediately following graduation, go to Berkeley (although Berkeley at that price makes me personally uncomfortable).
If you want to go into FedGov while relying on LRAP/PSLF for a decade following graduation, then Chicago is the best choice.

[genjustice]

I'm a little confused here on your goals: you're interested in federal government, biglaw litigation, but are planning on relying on loan forgiveness? FedGov would apply to an LRAP, but the biglaw red herring is kind of throwing me off. And that's compounded by being 100% positive you want to be in CA for work. Are you wanting to go into FedGov with the intent of lateraling into Biglaw ten years down the road after your loans are forgiven? If that's your goal/plan, then I would suggest Chicago for the best chance of achieving your goal of FedGov jobs, but those won't be in CA for the next decade following graduation more than likely.

If what you want most is CA work immediately following graduation, go to Berkeley (although Berkeley at that price makes me personally uncomfortable).
If you want to go into FedGov while relying on LRAP/PSLF for a decade following graduation, then Chicago is the best choice.

Thanks for that really insightful post! Very helpful. So would you say Berk for CA BigLaw/USAO-NDC/fed clerking in ND or 9th Circ? Or would Chi give a leg up for those given T4 prestige?

[landshoes]

I honestly don't know what Berkley's ability to place is like, but I know people with 9th and NDCA clerkships from UChi. Not sure if that helps, ha ha. If you feel more comfortable at Berkley maybe that's the place to go.

[LoganCouture]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

Disclaimer: 2L, knows nothing.

[rpupkin]

Goal is to end up in government or BigLaw litigation.

Received total $50k from Berkeley and Penn, and total $15k from Chicago - rest will be financed through loans and I'll probably go down the PI loan forgiveness route.

You have some contradictory goals.

That aside, for someone who has no California ties but wants to practice in the state, Berkeley is probably the best choice here, even if cost were equal. The fact that Berkeley is cheaper makes your choice fairly straightforward.

[rpupkin]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

[curry1]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

what about chicago? (assume strong existing ties)

[rpupkin]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

what about chicago? (assume strong existing ties)

If my goal was Nor Cal, I'd want to be at Berkeley instead of Chicago. For SoCal it's probably a wash. For every other market in the country, Chicago is at least slightly better. The preceding assumes equal cost.

[LoganCouture]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

Yeah sorry I phrased messily and overlooked that one could get H/Y but not S. I would agree to take H/Y over B depending on cost.

[eck456]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

eh. there's some strong Cal pride - a LOT of people hiring in the Bay went to Cal for undergrad or law school and have a lot of pride in hiring other Cal grads. I'm sure there are times when a H/Y is just...interesting? compared to a bunch of Cal apps, but actually I've seen Cal applicants hired in a variety of jobs over H grads, at least in the Bay. caveat, didn't work directly in law but worked with a lot of lawyers.

Edited to add: I don't think Berkeley in the Bay is EASIER to get hired with than H/Y, just don't discount the hometown effect and think it's a shoe-in situation

[WheninLaw]

I know 100% I want to live and practice in CA (no ties), so Berkeley seems the way to go. But I also want to keep options open for BigFed and clerkships, which leads me to believe that I should go to Chi to keep as many doors open - especially given B's recent ranking drop (though I'm not sure how relevant this should be in my decision?). Love that Chi and Penn have smaller class sizes, while I love B's grading system and culture. Goal is to end up in government or BigLaw litigation.

Received total $50k from Berkeley and Penn, and total $15k from Chicago - rest will be financed through loans and I'll probably go down the PI loan forgiveness route. All three schools seem to have similar plans though so that hasn't been a big factor in my decision - please correct me if otherwise.

So so so thankful given my stats (167/3.8, non-URM) and would love any insight from y'all!

No way Chicago is worth that much more than Berkeley for CA biglaw.

[rpupkin]

If you really are 100% CA or bust (particularly if SF/SV or bust), I would choose Berkeley here. I would choose Berkeley over basically every school but S (and even then it would depend on relative cost) though.

That's taking it a little too far. I'd choose H and Y over Berkeley as well. A H or Y student is going to have an easier time in the CA market (including SF/SV) compared to a Berkeley student.

eh. there's some strong Cal pride - a LOT of people hiring in the Bay went to Cal for undergrad or law school and have a lot of pride in hiring other Cal grads. I'm sure there are times when a H/Y is just...interesting? compared to a bunch of Cal apps, but actually I've seen Cal applicants hired in a variety of jobs over H grads, at least in the Bay. caveat, didn't work directly in law but worked with a lot of lawyers.

Edited to add: I don't think Berkeley in the Bay is EASIER to get hired with than H/Y, just don't discount the hometown effect and think it's a shoe-in situation

I'm not discounting the hometown effect; that's why I give B a bump over the non-HYS T14. But it's generally not enough of a bump to overcome the rep of HY. And I do work directly in law.