Is Columbia at sticker worth it? Forum

[Yitzhak26]

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[curry1]

Some background:

I have a 177, so I'm not going to retake and I'm not willing to wait a year and reapply.
I THINK I want public interest law, but I also enjoy nice things and could stand to earn BigLaw money for ~2 years or so.
I don't know where I want to end up practicing, but it's likely not NYC.
I have full rides / almost full rides at schools outside the T14 and small scholarships at lower T-14 schools, but no offer at a top school with decent money, so I'm not even sure what I'd choose if not Columbia.

So, is Columbia at sticker a smart and/or defensible choice for someone who is young and has no debt whatsoever?

Have you received notice from C that you won't be getting any aid, or is this just a hypo? I would think you'd get Butler-esque money, but this cycle has been weird.

[Npret]

What will your debt at repayment be from these schools?

LST has estimated Columbia full sticker debt at just over $331,000

[Rigo]

Have you received notice from C that you won't be getting any aid, or is this just a hypo? I would think you'd get Butler-esque money, but this cycle has been weird.

I'm guessing splitter here.

[dabigchina]

I wouldn't. Our LRAP is fairly robust (I have heard), but if you aren't sure you want the PI lifestyle it doesn't make sense to make ur decision based on that.

What are your "small" scholarships at the lower T14?

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

I did, and I would strongly recommend that you don't... wish I took the scholarship money or skipped law entirely.

[Nebby]

I did but was also certain of the PI route. You don't sound certain so I don't think it's the right decision for you.

[BlendedUnicorn]

Yeah PI's not something you casually decide to fuck with from a school like that. If you're not sure right now you're going to end up doing big law and I don't think Columbia at sticker is a good deal for big law.

[PrezRand]

and small scholarships at lower T-14 schools

[4'sup]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

[jbagelboy]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

[runinthefront]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

This is a super easy choice. Michigan is the way to go here.

[20170322]

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[4'sup]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

This is a super easy choice. Michigan is the way to go here.

Yeah, I agree. OP, buy a coat and go to Michigan.

Here's something that changed the way I think about it. 60k a year for 3 years is 180k. However, 60k for 3 years taken out each year with interest over 10 years ends up being over 300,000 dollars at the time of repayment. Think about 300,000 dollars, what that represents, and how far that could get you towards your goals.

That's a great way to think about it. Adding the over $20,000 per year it will cost to live in NYC just makes it even worse.

I emailed CLS about merit aid and they turned me down. I didn't even get a chance to bring up the Michigan scholly.

[4'sup]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

I appreciate all your help! What about a 150,000 scholly to michigan vs going to NYU with a 91,000 scholly? Would NYU make sense then?

[minkbrigade]

I did but was also certain of the PI route. You don't sound certain so I don't think it's the right decision for you.

So I'm in a very similar boat, but I am absolutely certain about doing PI. My impulse is to take CLS, since with the LRAP there is a significant chance that it would be cheaper in the long run than even the full ride at a strong regional I have, as I'd have to debt-finance my COL and also have undergrad debt. But taking a school with such high upfront schools when there are cheaper options available has been hard for me to commit to. What was your thought process around choosing CLS? Would you recommend that folks in your shoes take that leap, or take the money elsewhere and run? I'm also happy to PM about this if you are up for it/prefer.

[saf18hornet]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

I appreciate all your help! What about a 150,000 scholly to michigan vs going to NYU with a 91,000 scholly? Would NYU make sense then?

No way. NYU and Michigan are the same with all things considered. Unless its HYS, its not worth 60k more than Michigan. (my opinion)

[Nebby]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

I appreciate all your help! What about a 150,000 scholly to michigan vs going to NYU with a 91,000 scholly? Would NYU make sense then?

150k at Michigan is really good.

[existentialcrisis]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

I appreciate all your help! What about a 150,000 scholly to michigan vs going to NYU with a 91,000 scholly? Would NYU make sense then?

I would probably still take Michigan, but if you want biglaw (which I can't really tell if you do?) then I think NYU would be defensible, because it probably provides considerable downside risk. Still, keep in mind that NYU would mean paying ~1700 month in loans.

[4'sup]

Dealing with same thing. got a scholly for 150,000 at Michigan. Thinking that's a better option, although I would love to go to CLS 176, 3.5X

Easily michigan. And I do think Columbia is the better school by a fair margin, but not $150,000 better.

I appreciate all your help! What about a 150,000 scholly to michigan vs going to NYU with a 91,000 scholly? Would NYU make sense then?

I would probably still take Michigan, but if you want biglaw (which I can't really tell if you do?) then I think NYU would be defensible, because it probably provides considerable downside risk. Still, keep in mind that NYU would mean paying ~1700 month in loans.

Yeah, Im sold on biglaw...

Hope i can leverage that 91,000 at NYU to some nice money at Penn, NU, or Berk(other acceptances who have yet to give me money).

[call-me-bubbles]

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[BlendedUnicorn]

Yeah PI's not something you casually decide to fuck with from a school like that. If you're not sure right now you're going to end up doing big law and I don't think Columbia at sticker is a good deal for big law.

Can you walk me through your thought process here? Sorry if that comes across weird, but I'm genuinely curious; my knee-jerk response to OP's question was basically the opposite of everything you said.

What do you mean about PI not being "something you casually decide to fuck with from a school like [Columbia]"? I thought Columbia had a solid LRAP program. Granted, I haven't researched Columbia much, but does LRAP only kick in if you work in PI/govt. for 10+ years consecutively? (ex. If you do PI for three years, then do a stint in BL, then go back to PI, you're no longer eligible for LRAP? Or vice-versa, if you do two years in BL, then switch to PI, you're not eligible for LRAP at all because you didn't pursue it immediately upon graduation?)

And I thought Columbia at sticker would be one of the few (say, YSHCC) defensible choices to take at sticker, especially if you're certain about wanting to pursue BL since your odds of getting market-paying BL are good.

I think as a general rule if you go to a law school with the big law placement power of Columbia and you're not 100% sure you want to do PI, you're not going to do PI. It's just too easy to see what happens at OCI and then take that summer money and then take the guaranteed job for someone who could go either way to try PI and deal with the much slower hiring process. You've really got to be dedicated to spend 3L on the job hunt while all your friends are throwing around those firm dollars.

I have no idea what their LRAP policy is wrt to going back and forth between BL and PI. And I guess I should add a disclaimer that I was only talking about the first job. I agree that if BL is the goal paying sticker to go to Columbia makes as much sense as paying sticker to go to HYS, but as a general rule I don't think BL is worth sticker anywhere.

[Nebby]

Yeah PI's not something you casually decide to fuck with from a school like that. If you're not sure right now you're going to end up doing big law and I don't think Columbia at sticker is a good deal for big law.

Can you walk me through your thought process here? Sorry if that comes across weird, but I'm genuinely curious; my knee-jerk response to OP's question was basically the opposite of everything you said.

What do you mean about PI not being "something you casually decide to fuck with from a school like [Columbia]"? I thought Columbia had a solid LRAP program. Granted, I haven't researched Columbia much, but does LRAP only kick in if you work in PI/govt. for 10+ years consecutively? (ex. If you do PI for three years, then do a stint in BL, then go back to PI, you're no longer eligible for LRAP? Or vice-versa, if you do two years in BL, then switch to PI, you're not eligible for LRAP at all because you didn't pursue it immediately upon graduation?)

And I thought Columbia at sticker would be one of the few (say, YSHCC) defensible choices to take at sticker, especially if you're certain about wanting to pursue BL since your odds of getting market-paying BL are good.

Go read the CLS LRAP and then return
http://www.law.columbia.edu/sites/defau ... c_2014.pdf

[Nebby]

Probably half the people entering CLS are interested in PI. Only about 15% end up doing it. Reason is because, law students in our generation are risk averse due to the crash, and (1) it's easy to get biglaw and (2) much harder to get PI, therefore most go with the less risky route.

[call-me-bubbles]

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