QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision) Forum

[guynourmin]

But Ferris I'm serious

[cavalier1138]

I know I said im killing this thread but today there was a serious development that Im honestly not sure what your reactions would be. QU just took the stips off my scholarship and im now seriously considering them. How much more do you guys think UCONN is worth? Id be paying living expenses at QU plus around 3k a year in tuition. In my head that comes out to about 60k. I guess just try to be civil.

Wow, that is a serious development. I guess my answer would still be that you should not go to law school at all if you don't really want to be a lawyer holy shit are we still having this conversation.

I know that's kind of two answers in one, but I like to be thorough.

[mjb447]

Ferris, not sure if you've answered this before: are you okay with never practicing law? Like, you think you'll enjoy law school, you want out of your current environment that much, you don't think a $500/mo student loan payment is particularly burdensome, and you think you'll get some serious amount of satisfaction from having a JD next to your name even if you never use it?

and I'm not saying you'll never practice. I'm just saying, if the odds are about 50/50, are you okay with the other side?

Yes, he's okay with not practicing law. As long as he doesn't have to learn how to drive/escape from 4 Privet Drive and having to live with the aweful Dursley's, life will be fine and dandy!

Worked out for Harry

In an alternate universe, Harry's time at Hogwarts ended a year in after he was placed in a stacked section and lost his scholarship. He spent most of his productive years waiting tables at The Three Broomsticks and making ruinous payments to Gringotts.

[uion1715]

If you were willing to rule out Widener at Full because of statistics, why not rule out Quinnipiac? They have similar employment stats. Sure, their attrition rates may be different but 11% attrition is still pretty high for Q.

Quinnipiac is a fine institution (Its polls are widely respected, etc.) but it's about the stats. Law school where you have a less than coin-flip shot of being a lawyer doesn't make sense.

(You may want to try Reddit's Law School Admission subreddit if you want different opinion but in cases like this, they will likely give you the same answer.)

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Ferris, not sure if you've answered this before: are you okay with never practicing law? Like, you think you'll enjoy law school, you want out of your current environment that much, you don't think a $500/mo student loan payment is particularly burdensome, and you think you'll get some serious amount of satisfaction from having a JD next to your name even if you never use it?

and I'm not saying you'll never practice. I'm just saying, if the odds are about 50/50, are you okay with the other side?

Yes, he's okay with not practicing law. As long as he doesn't have to learn how to drive/escape from 4 Privet Drive and having to live with the aweful Dursley's, life will be fine and dandy!

Worked out for Harry

In an alternate universe, Harry's time at Hogwarts ended a year in after he was placed in a stacked section and lost his scholarship. He spent most of his productive years waiting tables at The Three Broomsticks and making ruinous payments to Gringotts.

Shit...he attended Hogwarts for 6 more years paying sticker?! PS. we all know Hermione only got into Hogwarts because of her URM status (under represented muggle) and Ron got a boat ton of Need-Based-Aid.

[Ferrisjso]

If you were willing to rule out Widener at Full because of statistics, why not rule out Quinnipiac? They have similar employment stats. Sure, their attrition rates may be different but 11% attrition is still pretty high for Q.

Quinnipiac is a fine institution (Its polls are widely respected, etc.) but it's about the stats. Law school where you have a less than coin-flip shot of being a lawyer doesn't make sense.

(You may want to try Reddit's Law School Admission subreddit if you want different opinion but in cases like this, they will likely give you the same answer.)

I scratched Widener because while they guarantee scholly's they compensated for that by kicking out a large percentage of students after 1L. How much of the 11% is forced attrition rather than self selection? I can totally see people with conditional stips who lose them dropping out/people figuring out law school isn't for them just leaving. At Widener they just kicked out a large segment of the class as a result of a Draconian curve and I want to attend law school, I don't want to play the Hunger Games(which is why conditional scholly's are a no no for me).

QU's employment stats are also better(not overall but the percent who work in law firms). I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

[Rigo]

I know that at a local state flagship, those who do poorly first semester are encouraged by the dean to drop out. If they don't, they're put in a remedial class.

The schools are probably worried about bar passage rates.

[guynourmin]

I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

How is that a mark against them? Wouldn't that be a benefit to you?

[Ferrisjso]

I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

How is that a mark against them? Wouldn't that be a benefit to you?

Well yes. Trying to objectively observe their placement power or lack therof.

[uion1715]

I scratched Widener because while they guarantee scholly's they compensated for that by kicking out a large percentage of students after 1L. How much of the 11% is forced attrition rather than self selection? I can totally see people with conditional stips who lose them dropping out/people figuring out law school isn't for them just leaving. At Widener they just kicked out a large segment of the class as a result of a Draconian curve and I want to attend law school, I don't want to play the Hunger Games(which is why conditional scholly's are a no no for me).

QU's employment stats are also better(not overall but the percent who work in law firms). I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

Well, I've heard everything.

[guynourmin]

I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

How is that a mark against them? Wouldn't that be a benefit to you?

Well yes. Trying to objectively observe their placement power or lack therof.

seems more arbitrary than objective, doesn't it? unless their are plans to build a new law school in Delaware in the next couple months, this shouldn't be a factor in your decision imo.

[Ferrisjso]

I'm also assuming Widener's employment stats are inflated by virtue of being the only LS in Delaware(a luxury most of it's peers don't have).

How is that a mark against them? Wouldn't that be a benefit to you?

Well yes. Trying to objectively observe their placement power or lack therof.

seems more arbitrary than objective, doesn't it? unless their are plans to build a new law school in Delaware in the next couple months, this shouldn't be a factor in your decision imo.

I guess you're right. Was just walking people through my thought process.

[beforethelaw]

QU still a bad option at that price. You'd be around 100k in debt. It might not ruin your life, but it still seems like the potential reward does not justify the risk here. You should think long and hard about ways that you could find new social circles in New York and (for the nth time) go to Cardozo.

I tend to find that people who think that moving to a new place, or getting a new degree, or being validated by "important" people, etc. etc. will make them happy tend to be equally if not more unhappy after they get what they thought would be the answer.

I am ambivalent about the way you get harangued on TLS. Some people think it's persuasive, but it may well not be (others may think it's just fun and don't really care about persuading anyone to make the right choice--not that they still don't make cogent points). At the end of the day, remember that you don't need these people to like you. You need to like yourself. And a big part of that is making financially responsible decisions.

Go to Cardozo or wait.

[snw2367]

If you're dead set on CT and don't want to wait a cycle I'd at that point go wherever you can get out cheapest aka QU. If you manage to keep your COL under control, you can probably get out with ~50k in debt which isn't good for that school, but is probably the best outcome you could ask for in terms of debt.

[Ferrisjso]

If you're dead set on CT and don't want to wait a cycle I'd at that point go wherever you can get out cheapest aka QU. If you manage to keep your COL under control, you can probably get out with ~50k in debt which isn't good for that school, but is probably the best outcome you could ask for in terms of debt.

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

Just took the time to do the math from the 509's and these are the official numbers. Of course all of these don't account for interest and tuition increases. I also believe there's a chance I can do lower than their COL numbers but then again there's the risk I go higher to.

Cardozo 86,388
UCONN 123,479 if I receive in state tuition my 2L and 3L year 153,647 if I just get in state tuition my 3L year and 183,815 if I never get in state tuition
Quinnipiac 68,853(higher than I thought)

[cavalier1138]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

[Ferrisjso]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that(except Grades).

[cavalier1138]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

[star fox]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

I think it's more about your tone

[cavalier1138]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

I think it's more about your tone

Well, I admit that my voice can be a little rough and husky. Maybe I should try a higher, clearer pitch? You know, like Lucille Ball.

But seriously, folks, if you want someone to pat you on the head and tell you what a smart boy/girl you are, talk to your family and friends. I have no interest in reinforcing the OP's delusions.

Way back when he got started on this insanity, I actually took a much gentler approach. Since he's proven himself time and time again to be completely uninterested in actually listening to anyone who doesn't reinforce his absurd worldview, I thought a different approach would work (or at the very least warn away any 0Ls who are naive enough to listen to him).

[Ferrisjso]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

Your comments on this thread and other threads. It irritates me when you ask 0L's what their goals are when they don't need to know yet, it irritates me that you think LS is a purely economic decision, it irritates me that you talk to people who are in great situations(not me) as if they're drug addicts who need an intervention, it irritates me that you're ageist and think that having more work experience means **** in terms of credibility, and it irritates me when you ask for people's stats in a choosing a law school thread not so you can tell them which of the existing options they have is better but so you can ridicule them and tell them to retake while ignoring their questions. Please leave when I am asking for advice I am not asking you nor like minded posters, I am mining through your comments to find people I take seriously(and there have been quite a few of those people and I thank them!).

[Dcc617]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

I think it's more about your tone

Well, I admit that my voice can be a little rough and husky. Maybe I should try a higher, clearer pitch? You know, like Lucille Ball.

But seriously, folks, if you want someone to pat you on the head and tell you what a smart boy/girl you are, talk to your family and friends. I have no interest in reinforcing the OP's delusions.

Way back when he got started on this insanity, I actually took a much gentler approach. Since he's proven himself time and time again to be completely uninterested in actually listening to anyone who doesn't reinforce his absurd worldview, I thought a different approach would work (or at the very least warn away any 0Ls who are naive enough to listen to him).

I know it's hard, but I'm just going to let him be. I'll wait for the thread in a year or two saying how he may have made a mistake and if he can transfer or start anew. Then they'll be the 'I'm a 3L and can't find a job." Then probably some time in the vale before he gets some shitlaw job or changes careers, with tens of thousands in dollars of debt.

I tried, you tried, we all tried. This kid knows better. I hope it all works out for him, or at least that he does not spend the rest of his life dealing with his 22 year old decisions. But it is what it is.

[cavalier1138]

Your comments on this thread and other threads. It irritates me when you ask 0L's what their goals are when they don't need to know yet, it irritates me that you think LS is a purely economic decision, it irritates me that you talk to people who are in great situations(not me) as if they're drug addicts who need an intervention, it irritates me that you're ageist and think that having more work experience means **** in terms of credibility, and it irritates me when you ask for people's stats in a choosing a law school thread not so you can tell them which of the existing options they have is better but so you can ridicule them and tell them to retake while ignoring their questions. Please leave when I am asking for advice I am not asking you nor like minded posters, I am mining through your comments to find people I take seriously(and there have been quite a few of those people and I thank them!).

Well golly gosh. Now I feel all bad for thinking that people who want to go to professional school should have some clue why they want to be there. It's almost like I read a stickied post at the top of this very forum that tells people that they need to include their career goals in their OP in order to help people properly assess which school is best. But you're right. It's either this or the gas station for everyone, so I should just let people who want to work at Cravath go to St. John's at sticker. That would be the responsible thing to do.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't know why everyone keeps asking if I don't want to wait a cycle, I've made it pretty clear.

No one's asking. They're emphasizing the point that not waiting a cycle in your situation is a fucking terrible decision.

You have the least credibility in my eyes in determining that.

Is it because I have years more work experience than you, or is it because I've actually been through this process already? I can't tell which thing makes me less credible.

Your comments on this thread and other threads. It irritates me when you ask 0L's what their goals are when they don't need to know yet, it irritates me that you think LS is a purely economic decision, it irritates me that you talk to people who are in great situations(not me) as if they're drug addicts who need an intervention, it irritates me that you're ageist and think that having more work experience means **** in terms of credibility, and it irritates me when you ask for people's stats in a choosing a law school thread not so you can tell them which of the existing options they have is better but so you can ridicule them and tell them to retake while ignoring their questions. Please leave when I am asking for advice I am not asking you nor like minded posters, I am mining through your comments to find people I take seriously(and there have been quite a few of those people and I thank them!).

You're not required to agree with cavalier or like his tone (like absolutely not at all), but keep in mind that the info he asks for is the info that this site encourages people to provide when asking for advice about choosing a school: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=206299

(also, while "you'll understand better when you're older" is the most obnoxious and unconvincing of arguments, people with more experience in a given setting actually do usually have better advice than people with less experience in that setting.)

[pancakes3]

lol