Rutgers vs Seton Hall

[NY/NJlaw]

Both will cost about the same for me and I've heard conflicting reviews so I thought I'd put it out there one more time. As a follow-up how do you feel about those two virtually free vs cardoza no $$ and Fordham no $$??

[nvoight911]

Go to Fordham

[tziporahc]

Stay out of Newark

[Reznik]

.

[owt]

both will get you jobs in ID

[bulls312]

fordham. if you have to pick between seton hall and rugters, pick rutgers. I'm not a fan of the pirates.

[Oklahoma Mike]

What are your career goals?
If you want biglaw in NYC than go to Fordham. But I'd certainly pick Rutgers over Seton Hall, job prospects seem to be better across the board. If you want to do public interest work take Rutgers. Fordham isn't prestigious enough that it is worth the debt- really only very top schools are for public interest (plus they have better LRAPs) Rutgers has great clinics- so if you want to do criminal law (prosecuting or public defense) or a lot of different PI areas Rutgers will actually have some pretty good practical preparation. Adding on the low cost it seems to me to be the best option for jobs other than biglaw.

[NY/NJlaw]

Thanks for the input.
I'm looking for big law or possibly criminal, PI is out. NY or NJ either is the same to me.

If Fordham's out of the picture, What are everyone's thoughts on Cardoza racking up debt vs RU??
Thanks again appreciate the responses.

[drleather]

So far I'm in a similar situation.

I have a decent $ offer from Rutgers N, and another less-generous (and harder to maintain) offer from Rutgers C. I'm awaiting responses from Fordham and Seton Hall.

Part of me thinks Rutgers C would be a better choice, regardless of the extra $30K or so it would cost me.

I sort of regret applying to Seton Hall. It was a waste of $60. Unless they offer me a free-ride, I don't think I'd go there over either of the Rutgers. Newark kind of stinks, it's expensive to live anywhere nearby that's decent (Montclair, Jersey City, Hoboken...) but at least Rutgers N has a really diverse student body and has good local connections. From what I hear, North Jersey firms hire from there pretty regularly, so while you'll probably be on the same level as about St. John's for NYC jobs, you'll have first crack at the mid-sized Jersey firms.

Still, Rutgers C might be the best choice overall: it's pretty easy to get in-state Jersey tuition, so its still pretty cheap.

Anyone ever try to play the Rutgers off against one another for $$? I wonder if I could get Camden to match Newark's offer.

[Kompressor]

DrLeather you aren't a big Red Sox fan are you? Same screen name as someone from another board I know so apologies if I'm off base.

[bryguy]

fordham or rutgers

[drleather]

Kompressor: Don't tell Rick Burleson's Yam Bag, ok?

[Kompressor]

...

[drleather]

Actually, no I don't.

Come clean!

Anyway, yea, are you considering Rutgers or Seton Hall, Kompressor?

[Kompressor]

...

[drleather]

I sent you a PM.

[vyper]

What if Seton Hall ended up cheaper than Rutgers-N (with a slightly harder to keep scholarship requirement of top 40% vs top 50%)?

[NY/NJlaw]

that is my exact situation actually and everything I've heard is that RU is a better school with better prospects. The slightly cheaper sticker is well outweighed by the higher penalty of losing a big SH scholarship and having to come up with 38K if you have a bad semester. Just the conclusion I've come up with but still waiting to hear from stronger schools. good luck

[Oklahoma Mike]

OK, if you are absolutely sure you want biglaw and will do anything to get there Fordham, no question.

If you want to do criminal law- especially prosecution, then I'd take Rutgers. There's no way a slightly lower price at Seton Hall would be worth it if you can lose that scholarship. Plus, I think Rutgers is worth a bit more than Seton Hall anyway. If Rutgers is nearly free, I wouldn't turn it down for just a bit more money.
Cardozo and Fordham both don't seem worth the debt for going into prosecution.

[jbauer24]

you hear nothing but bad things about Seton Hall, the program, the courses. Either Rutgers is a better choice it looks like.

[vyper]

I have read the negative comments coming from Seton Hall, but I wonder whether they are primarily fueled by the students who finish low in the class and paid full tuition (I can't even begin to imagine paying 36k per year for Seton Hall when Rutgers is an option at half that, but luckily the cost to me would be closer to 7k for Seton Hall, 10k for Rutgers). My greatest concern when considering Rutgers-N is that Seton Hall seems to be on the upswing while Rutgers is clearly on the decline. My understanding is that higher education in New Jersey is only going to see more budget cuts next year (--LinkRemoved--, --LinkRemoved--). If this goes through, I'd have to believe the gap between Seton Hall and Rutgers-N will swing further toward Seton Hall, and while the schools are certainly arguably a wash today, will it remain that way in three years? What about ten?

The other aspect I'm converned about is that while Rutgers and Seton Hall's full-time divisions are roughly the same size (~190 vs. ~180), Seton Hall's part-time division is massive in comparison (~170 vs ~70). Looking at some big law + mid law North Jersey firms I'd be interested in working at (Newark + Roseland particularly) on http://www.infirmation.com/shared/insider/payscale.tcl, it seems Seton Hall has a slight edge in number of lawyers at most firms. My question is, given that Seton Hall ranks their full and part time division separately, is it safe to assume the job prospects coming out of the part-time division pale in comparison to the full-time, and most of Seton Hall's lawyers are from their full-time division?

The fear of losing my scholarship at either school doesn't scare me as much... honestly if I'm out of the top 40% at Seton Hall (rough 3.3 GPA cut off last year, but it can vary from top 30% to top 50% based on curve) or the top 45-55% at Rutgers (again slight variation possible based on the curve) I'd have to question whether law was really for me, as the job prospects can't be particularly bright.

Nonetheless, this is just my own feelings, I'm honestly on the bubble between the two schools atm, but leaning toward Seton Hall. I was gun ho on Rutgers early in the cycle, but now it's much closer and even tilting the other way. I don't know if you got Seton Hall's information packet about their accepted student's day, merit scholars champagne brunch, and dinner in NY city, but I have to believe it's the events like this where Seton Hall's funding really sets itself apart from Rutgers. Of course, I suppose if I was paying 36k a year compared to Rutgers 20k, I'd expect these type of events.

I'm still considering a few higher tier 2/lower tier 1 schools, but I'd really prefer staying in NJ and have all but narrowed it to Rutgers-N and Seton Hall.

[vyper]

Oh, here's the self-reported job placement in private practice for each school. According to US News (not the source of these numbers), only 49% and 50% report salary information at Rutgers and Seton Hall, but interesting nonetheless. Again I wonder how much the large size of Seton Hall's part-time division distort the numbers, as I can't believe the job prospects are as good from any part time division (that is ranked seperately) as the comparative full-time division.

Seton Hall - 39% of the class is in private practice.
26.47% of the 39% are at firms of 2 to 10 attorneys with an average salary of $53,191
16.18% of the 39% are at firms of 11 to 25 attorneys with an average salary of $62,841
5.88% of the 39% are at firms of 26 to 50 attorneys with an average salary of $73,125
8.09% of the 39% are at firms of 51 to 100 attorneys with an average salary of $85,136
6.62% of the 39% are at firms of 101 to 250 attorneys with an average salary of $107,167
7.35% of the 39% are at firms of 251 to 500 attorneys with an average salary of $133,000
9.56% of the 39% are at firms of 500+ attorneys with an average salary of $135,385
18.38% of the 39% did not specify the size of the firm
1.47% of the 39% are self-employed

Rutgers-Newark - 45.1% of the class is in private practice.
11.96% are at firms of 2 to 10 attorneys with an average salary of $62,400
3.26% are at firms of 11 to 25 attorneys with an average salary of $77,500
14.13% are at firms of 26 to 50 attorneys with an average salary of $88,231
10.87% are at firms of 51 to 100 attorneys with an average salary of $87,333
25% are at firms of 101 to 250 attorneys with an average salary of $122,474
8.7% are at firms of 251 to 500 attorneys with an average salary of $140,000
25% are at firms of 500+ attorneys with an average salary of $141,739

[NY/NJlaw]

I know you have to take these things with a grain of salt but the crazies on JDunderground really rip SH to shreds. With the sheer mass of hatred for it some of it must be true. You might want to take a look at that too. There is also some constructive info on both besides the usual rants.

[vyper]

I know you have to take these things with a grain of salt but the crazies on JDunderground really rip SH to shreds. With the sheer mass of hatred for it some of it must be true. You might want to take a look at that too. There is also some constructive info on both besides the usual rants.

I've seen that. They also rip Brooklyn, Cardozo, Rutgers and just about every "TTT" school (though admittedly Seton Hall and Brooklyn seem to get the brunt of the abuse, particularly from a few irate individuals). I still believe these most adamant individuals are those finishing lower in the class, especially those who paid full tuition to do so, but maybe I'm just naive. Honestly from the posts I've read there, the general consensus seems: Seton Hall = terrible investment at 37k, Rutgers = terrible investment but cheaper. That place is just filled with tons of hate for all NY/NJ schools below Fordham, whether legitimate or not is another question.

Unfortunately I don't know any recent grads or current students to get a feel for the two schools from.

[Player30]

They also hate Hofstra there with a passion. Interestingly, NYLS escapes the worst abuse. Do their grads actually do ok? Hmm...