How Much Debt Worth It for CCN? Forum

[aprendiendo]

Is CCN worth almost 250k of debt? That's what I'm facing, after an approximate 25k scholarship. I have sent a few emails to the financial aid people over the summer saying that I would need to reduce this debt to preferably around $185,000 or else considering retaking the LSAT and going for a later cycle. I'm at the LSAT median of the school and the 75th of its GPA. 2-3 years of WE since undergrad. How much debt is CCN worth?

My problem is that the financial aid office hasn't said anything to my queries. I've sent 3 total emails over the summer, the earliest in May, two to the person who sent me my scholarship letter cc'ing the general admission email and 1 to that person cc'ing the financial aid box. I received a quick response from the admission box saying that they will not forward my message because I included in the email the person who it should have gone to. However, I have heard nothing from any other address. I also left a message semi-recently for the financial aid office.

I have two more specific questions. In the event that I either never hear anything or at least get my no, what should I do? I will PM the missing specifics, if need be. I am not sure what field I want to go into, but I am interested in government and international law.

My second question is about the lack of response. Is this normal? Why haven't they at least said no? Thanks friends...

EDIT: I Finally have my answer. My annual cost at UChi is not going down.

[Barack O'Drama]

Is it worth it, yeah, I happen to think it is. That is my personal opinion, though. I bet a lot if not most people most would think otherwise. So don't make a decision based off of me. I do think it is subjective and no one can really tell you what it is worth to you. I grew up in a project building raised by my grandma, and until I went college I basically wrote off the idea of ever having a future. I figured I'd end up selling drugs or pursuing rap...lol
So ANY chance at a life, even one in massive debt, would be worth it to me. Again, just my opinion.... You have to figure out what is worth it to you.

That said, it is never a bad idea to retake and get a better scholly offer. I actually recently decided to sit out this entire cycle and make sure my LSAT score is a at the 75%-tile of the schools I want to apply to.

I don't really know much about the details of the admissions process to know if that is normal. I've never heard of it happening, so I would think it is a little odd? I'd say to try calling and see what is going on...

I wish you the best of luck! CNN are great schools, but if I do think you should retake. Even if it takes you an extra year to get a score that will give you another $50gs in money would make it worth it. You obviously have a good GPA, so don't waste it

[TragicBronson]

I think they're hoping you'll buy that they forgot. I'd go ahead and call them.

To answer the question, I think CCN for that price will work. That's not to say that I wouldn't rather take bigger money to lower t14, but your hypo is still a good proposition. However, like I said, I'd call them before you even lock in on this kind of question. I feel optimistic about you negotiating some money here.

[BoobGoddess]

It really depends on your financial situation. If you have like $300K in the bank or if your parents can help you out all the way, go to the highest ranked school you can.

But if you're a regular person that's probably not going to happen. In that case, you should walk yourself through several possibilities for the schools you are considering: top of the class (full scholarship, partial scholarship, no scholarship), middle of the class (full schoalrship, partial scholarship, no scholarship), and bottom of the class (full scholarship, partial scholarship, no scholarship).

At heavy debt, if you are top of the class you should be fine in terms of getting a good job. But taking out $250K and assuming you make $180k, after deducting taxes and expenses, you have about $120K left over. That's not even half of the debt you incurred! You are basically an indentured servant for the next three or four years. Meanwhile, your interest clock is ticking. At the bottom of the class, if you take $250K, you are fucked because your starting salary may very well be a job that pays $30K. So if you incur debt, the question becomes how long you are going to be an indentured servant for...

If you have no loans at all, if you land a $180K job, you get to keep every penny of it after taxes and expenses. Even if you ended up at the bottom of the class, if you have no debt you could take a minimum wage job and still profit!

Bottom line is this, if you take out a heavy debt load, you are working super hard for nothing for a few years--you put yourself through law school, but the next three or four years go towards loan repayments. Totally, that is like 6 or 7 years of not working at all, because you don't get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[jbagelboy]

I think the top schools can be worth it if it's your best option and you are absolutely certain you want to practice law. These schools will provide terrific opportunities, the best in the industry: if they aren't worth it, then nowhere is, but that converse position is a fair argument too--law school, no matter what the outcome, probably isn't worth $250,000 to the vast majority of potential applicants in reference to their alternatives.

If you're a 3.3/175 and you get into a T6 school with a small scholarship and there isn't anything significantly cheaper elsewhere in the T14, you don't have a good job with upward potential, you like reading and writing, you're willing to accept menial living standards for many years, and you want to practice law, attending and taking the debt might be your best chance at a fulfilling career. On the other hand, if you have a lot of room to grow in your LSAT, or you have a much higher scholarship at a similar school, or you have a great job that you can move up through, or you hate the idea of being an attorney, then borrowing $250k for these schools would be a poor life choice and likely result in worse outcomes than alternatives.

[RamTitan]

I think the top schools can be worth it if it's your best option and you are absolutely certain you want to practice law. These schools will provide terrific opportunities, the best in the industry: if they aren't worth it, then nowhere is, but that converse position is a fair argument too--law school, no matter what the outcome, probably isn't worth $250,000 to the vast majority of potential applicants in reference to their alternatives.

If you're a 3.3/175 and you get into a T6 school with a small scholarship and there isn't anything significantly cheaper elsewhere in the T14, you don't have a good job with upward potential, you like reading and writing, you're willing to accept menial living standards for many years, and you want to practice law, attending and taking the debt might be your best chance at a fulfilling career. On the other hand, if you have a lot of room to grow in your LSAT, or you have a much higher scholarship at a similar school, or you have a great job that you can move up through, or you hate the idea of being an attorney, then borrowing $250k for these schools would be a poor life choice and likely result in worse outcomes than alternatives.

Good post

[Johann]

agree with the above. if you don't have a good career and must have biglaw/want an outside chance at being a professor, take the debt. $200K over a 30 year career is not that intimidating when you consider that you only get to go law school once and have one legal career.

[GreenEggs]

If it's CLS, then not surprised they haven't replied. You could write a dystopian novel about the bureaucracy. I would definitely follow-up with a call or e-mail someone directly if you've just e-mailed the generic fin_aid address.

That being said. While debt load is heavily based on your own circumstances, goals, etc., if you are strongly interested in gov't/int'l non-private sector work, CCN offers LRAP programs that will take care of your debt.

[Mullens]

Based on your numbers, I think that's way way too much debt. You could go to a lower T14 with a full ride and like a fifth of that debt (or less).

[BizBro]

Based on your numbers, I think that's way way too much debt. You could go to a lower T14 with a full ride and like a fifth of that debt (or less).

Agreed. I would take the full ride at a lower t14 and most likely end up in big law with CLS grads.

[theconsigliere]

Based on your numbers, I think that's way way too much debt. You could go to a lower T14 with a full ride and like a fifth of that debt (or less).

Agreed. I would take the full ride at a lower t14 and most likely end up in big law with CLS grads.

If by full ride you mean $50k/year from Cornell or maybe NW ED then it's possible. But I don't think OP's stats* will get legit full rides from any T14, and I don't think they'll pull more than 30-40k/year from Duke, UVA, and the like. Unless the softs are really strong.

*unclear exactly what OP's stats are. 50th LSAT and 75th GPA is better at Chicago (170/3.97) than at Columbia (171/3.81) which is better than NYU (169/3.87).

[aprendiendo]

Based on your numbers, I think that's way way too much debt. You could go to a lower T14 with a full ride and like a fifth of that debt (or less).

Agreed. I would take the full ride at a lower t14 and most likely end up in big law with CLS grads.

If by full ride you mean $50k/year from Cornell or maybe NW ED then it's possible. But I don't think OP's stats* will get legit full rides from any T14, and I don't think they'll pull more than 30-40k/year from Duke, UVA, and the like. Unless the softs are really strong.

*unclear exactly what OP's stats are. 50th LSAT and 75th GPA is better at Chicago (170/3.97) than at Columbia (171/3.81) which is better than NYU (169/3.87).

I just realized that the specificity of second part of my post would ruin my anonymity, at least in the eyes of the admission/financial aid offices of the school in question. The school is UChi, and my GPA is actually 3.96.

What concerns me is the lack of response and what interests me is what you guys would do in my situation. I just sent an email to the Dean of Admissions last night, and I think I only have a few more days left to agree to my loan amount.

[HYPSM]

Would you consider retaking? That's a great GPA, and I think you would be in a much better position with a few more points on the LSAT. Also, were you accepted by Columbia? What are your other options?

[El Pollito]

RETAKE

[theconsigliere]

If by full ride you mean $50k/year from Cornell or maybe NW ED then it's possible. But I don't think OP's stats* will get legit full rides from any T14, and I don't think they'll pull more than 30-40k/year from Duke, UVA, and the like. Unless the softs are really strong.

*unclear exactly what OP's stats are. 50th LSAT and 75th GPA is better at Chicago (170/3.97) than at Columbia (171/3.81) which is better than NYU (169/3.87).

I just realized that the specificity of second part of my post would ruin my anonymity, at least in the eyes of the admission/financial aid offices of the school in question. The school is UChi, and my GPA is actually 3.96.

What concerns me is the lack of response and what interests me is what you guys would do in my situation. I just sent an email to the Dean of Admissions last night, and I think I only have a few more days left to agree to my loan amount.

That's good news! I don't think 170/3.96 should have to pay $250k for CCN. Also, with those numbers you're in that zone where a) retaking is not an unreasonable option if you think you can get 172+ or b) if you don't want to/can't retake, you could very well be in line for significantly more money from schools ranked between UVA and Cornell. In my estimation the best thing to do would be to apply this coming cycle and try to get $35-40k (or more, obviously) from a school in the bottom half of the T13.

[Nebby]

Is CCN worth almost 250k of debt? That's what I'm facing, after an approximate 25k scholarship. I have sent a few emails to the financial aid people over the summer saying that I would need to reduce this debt to preferably around $185,000 or else considering retaking the LSAT and going for a later cycle. I'm at the LSAT median of the school and the 75th of its GPA. 2-3 years of WE since undergrad. How much debt is CCN worth?

My problem is that the financial aid office hasn't said anything to my queries. I've sent 3 total emails over the summer, the earliest in May, two to the person who sent me my scholarship letter cc'ing the general admission email and 1 to that person cc'ing the financial aid box. I received a quick response from the admission box saying that they will not forward my message because I included in the email the person who it should have gone to. However, I have heard nothing from any other address. I also left a message semi-recently for the financial aid office.

I have two more specific questions. In the event that I either never hear anything or at least get my no, what should I do? I will PM the missing specifics, if need be. I am not sure what field I want to go into, but I am interested in government and international law.

My second question is about the lack of response. Is this normal? Why haven't they at least said no? Thanks friends...

Not worth it if you have to ask, imo

[UnicornHunter]

Chicago's a great school and I'm sure you'll be able to deal with the debt but there are lots of great schools in the T-14 and one of them should be able to give you moar money.

If you did something dumb (sorry) like only apply to Chicago, sit out the cycle and reapply (and, seriously, retake while you're at it).

If you have other offers tell us about them and we'll tell you where to go.

IN ANY CASE, pick up the phone and start calling people in admissions (at all the schools you were granted admission). You have all the leverage now, don't be timid. Think of this as the first and most important negotiation of your legal career.

[aprendiendo]

That's good news! I don't think 170/3.96 should have to pay $250k for CCN. Also, with those numbers you're in that zone where a) retaking is not an unreasonable option if you think you can get 172+ or b) if you don't want to/can't retake, you could very well be in line for significantly more money from schools ranked between UVA and Cornell. In my estimation the best thing to do would be to apply this coming cycle and try to get $35-40k (or more, obviously) from a school in the bottom half of the T13.

Chicago's a great school and I'm sure you'll be able to deal with the debt but there are lots of great schools in the T-14 and one of them should be able to give you moar money.

If you did something dumb (sorry) like only apply to Chicago, sit out the cycle and reapply (and, seriously, retake while you're at it).

If you have other offers tell us about them and we'll tell you where to go.

IN ANY CASE, pick up the phone and start calling people in admissions (at all the schools you were granted admission). You have all the leverage now, don't be timid. Think of this as the first and most important negotiation of your legal career.

To give more details, I did apply to other schools, but I got W/L'd/held at CLS, Penn, NYU and UVA -- withdrew. Don't ask me about HYS either. Got in at Duke and I think I had 25k per year scholarship. However, I could only deposit at one school, so this is kind of my only option for this season.

There is one thing to consider. Though I can retake now, I have taken the test a total of three times in my life, and this was actually my second cycle that I had applied in. So I would have to be a re-re-applicant.

[Mullens]

Did you apply super late? I'm pretty shocked how poorly your cycle went with your numbers.

[aprendiendo]

Did you apply super late? I'm pretty shocked how poorly your cycle went with your numbers.

I was late to the game with NYU, and I'm telling myself it was YP with UVA. No clue with Penn, maybe it was a faulty optional essay. Held and CLS wasn't so bad, was it?

I'm as confused/upset as you are.

[aprendiendo]

I just got my reply from the Dean of Admissions:

My total cost at U of Chicago remains at 240k. Should I re-re-retake and re-reapply?

[BizBro]

I just got my reply from the Dean of Admissions:

My total cost at U of Chicago remains at 240k. Should I re-re-retake and re-reapply?

Retake and reapply.

[aprendiendo]

I just got my reply from the Dean of Admissions:

My total cost at U of Chicago remains at 240k. Should I re-re-retake and re-reapply?

Retake and reapply.

I like the definiteness of your answer. So being a three-time applicant with four LSAT scores won't hurt me if I come back with 175?

[Johann]

debt is a personal risk tolerance that no one on this board can tell you if its worth or not. im 250K in debt and it is not bad at all to me. it does not weigh me down mentally. it does not restrict my career decisions. it does not affect my happiness.

if you think you can get a 175 with a retake, sure retake and sit out a year. if you aren't going to better your score from top 1% to top .2% or whatever, just take out the debt. there are worse things than sticker at CCN.