Seton Hall Law (25k) vs Cardozo (42k) Forum

[money]

Hey guys, some quick questions about a pair of lower tier schools.

Both schools cost roughly the same. Seton Hall gave me 25k with a 2.8 GPA stipulation. Cardozo gave me an unconditional 42k. My main goal is to transfer out to T14 after my first year. Does Seton Hall's higher US News rankings help me with that? Or are they so far down and/or close enough in ranking (65 vs 74) for it not to matter?

I was also looking at employment outcomes on Law School Transparency in case I cannot transfer or decide to stay. Seton Hall has a higher overall employment score by a little more than 10 points but nearly a 9 point deficit when it comes to the large firm score. What accounts for this difference? Does this mean I have a better shot at larger firms coming from Cardozo?

Thanks

[Pomeranian]

Try to get SeTTTon Hall to get rid of that stipulaTTTion and raise their offer using the Cardozo offer. What does the cost of living situation look like?

Also, the consensus here is that you should not go to a school that you would not be happy graduating from. Cardozo would be better if you want to work in NYC.

Retake is TCR, frankly...

[cavalier1138]

I would probably drop the plan to transfer into a T14 after your first year, since that requires you to place at the top of your class.

So if your actual goal was always a T14, you should retake and reapply.

[Mikey]

If your goal is to transfer to a T14, then just retake and apply. It's much easier to do that than to hope you fall within the top 10% of your class at dozo or Seton. GPA/LSAT?

[money]

Try to get SeTTTon Hall to get rid of that stipulaTTTion and raise their offer using the Cardozo offer. What does the cost of living situation look like?

Also, the consensus here is that you should not go to a school that you would not be happy graduating from. Cardozo would be better if you want to work in NYC.

Retake is TCR, frankly...

Seton Hall originally offered me nothing. The 25k with stipulation is what they gave me after I appealed. COL difference will be about 6k a year I estimate.

I think I would be happy graduating from Cardozo, provided I'm near the top of the class. So Cardozo does better for NY jobs than Seton Hall? They're like 20 minutes apart though.

Retaking is a tough decision. I'm already 28 years old. The rational side of me obviously knows it would be worth it in the long run. I have to decide by Wednesday. Anyway, thanks for your input!

[cavalier1138]

Try to get SeTTTon Hall to get rid of that stipulaTTTion and raise their offer using the Cardozo offer. What does the cost of living situation look like?

Also, the consensus here is that you should not go to a school that you would not be happy graduating from. Cardozo would be better if you want to work in NYC.

Retake is TCR, frankly...

Seton Hall originally offered me nothing. The 25k with stipulation is what they gave me after I appealed. COL difference will be about 6k a year I estimate.

I think I would be happy graduating from Cardozo, provided I'm near the top of the class. So Cardozo does better for NY jobs than Seton Hall? They're like 20 minutes apart though.

Retaking is a tough decision. I'm already 28 years old. The rational side of me obviously knows it would be worth it in the long run. I have to decide by Wednesday. Anyway, thanks for your input!

I'm 30. You need to retake.

Under no circumstances should you take a scholarship with a stipulation. If you're wondering why, read this thread.

And you cannot, cannot, cannot plan on being the top of your class. You can't even plan on being in the top half. So no decision you make should be based on only being happy if you're at the top. That will end badly for you.

[money]

I would probably drop the plan to transfer into a T14 after your first year, since that requires you to place at the top of your class.

So if your actual goal was always a T14, you should retake and reapply.

If your goal is to transfer to a T14, then just retake and apply. It's much easier to do that than to hope you fall within the top 10% of your class at dozo or Seton. GPA/LSAT?

Thanks for the response guys. Its definitely something I'm considering. It would be very hard though as I graduated college late and am impatient to get my life started. But I totally get it though. I wouldn't say T14 is my ultimate goal. My goal is to get a good job (like 100k+). If I can do that without going to T14 that's fine, but I feel like what I read here on this forum says those types of jobs are not available to students who graduate from dozo and the like.

I graduated with a 2.8 gpa (3.8 my final 2 years, mentioned in all my addendums) and 160 lsat

[money]

Try to get SeTTTon Hall to get rid of that stipulaTTTion and raise their offer using the Cardozo offer. What does the cost of living situation look like?

Also, the consensus here is that you should not go to a school that you would not be happy graduating from. Cardozo would be better if you want to work in NYC.

Retake is TCR, frankly...

Seton Hall originally offered me nothing. The 25k with stipulation is what they gave me after I appealed. COL difference will be about 6k a year I estimate.

I think I would be happy graduating from Cardozo, provided I'm near the top of the class. So Cardozo does better for NY jobs than Seton Hall? They're like 20 minutes apart though.

Retaking is a tough decision. I'm already 28 years old. The rational side of me obviously knows it would be worth it in the long run. I have to decide by Wednesday. Anyway, thanks for your input!

I'm 30. You need to retake.

Under no circumstances should you take a scholarship with a stipulation. If you're wondering why, read this thread.

And you cannot, cannot, cannot plan on being the top of your class. You can't even plan on being in the top half. So no decision you make should be based on only being happy if you're at the top. That will end badly for you.

I will have to check out that thread later tonight, thanks. I'm not sure if I understand your last point though. I don't think I'd be happy anywhere I went (not just law school) if I didn't do well.

[cavalier1138]

I will have to check out that thread later tonight, thanks. I'm not sure if I understand your last point though. I don't think I'd be happy anywhere I went (not just law school) if I didn't do well.

What's "doing well"?

If "doing well" is ending up with the job you want in the area you want it, then you can attain that. If "doing well" is ending up at the top of the class, then you cannot plan on doing that.

Remember how your undergrad probably told you that the competition was going to be stiffer in college, so your grades might drop, etc. etc.? That was bullshit at your undergrad, but it's true in law school. You're going to be in competition with an entire class of people who are just as smart as (or smarter than) you. And you're going to be graded on a curve with them. So if everyone came in with the mentality of not being happy if they didn't place at the top 10% of the class, only 10% of the class would graduate happy.

You cannot plan on being at the top of your class. You can, at most, plan on being at the median. And even that isn't a sure thing.

[stego]

I would probably drop the plan to transfer into a T14 after your first year, since that requires you to place at the top of your class.

So if your actual goal was always a T14, you should retake and reapply.

If your goal is to transfer to a T14, then just retake and apply. It's much easier to do that than to hope you fall within the top 10% of your class at dozo or Seton. GPA/LSAT?

Thanks for the response guys. Its definitely something I'm considering. It would be very hard though as I graduated college late and am impatient to get my life started. But I totally get it though. I wouldn't say T14 is my ultimate goal. My goal is to get a good job (like 100k+). If I can do that without going to T14 that's fine, but I feel like what I read here on this forum says those types of jobs are not available to students who graduate from dozo and the like.

I graduated with a 2.8 gpa (3.8 my final 2 years, mentioned in all my addendums) and 160 lsat

Re: good job (100k+), the starting pay for most biglaw jobs currently is around 160k/yr. But have you heard of the bimodal distribution of lawyer salaries? Most entry level lawyer jobs pay far less than 100k. You are very unlikely to find a law job fresh out of law school that pays around 100k.

[Mikey]

I would probably drop the plan to transfer into a T14 after your first year, since that requires you to place at the top of your class.

So if your actual goal was always a T14, you should retake and reapply.

If your goal is to transfer to a T14, then just retake and apply. It's much easier to do that than to hope you fall within the top 10% of your class at dozo or Seton. GPA/LSAT?

Thanks for the response guys. Its definitely something I'm considering. It would be very hard though as I graduated college late and am impatient to get my life started. But I totally get it though. I wouldn't say T14 is my ultimate goal. My goal is to get a good job (like 100k+). If I can do that without going to T14 that's fine, but I feel like what I read here on this forum says those types of jobs are not available to students who graduate from dozo and the like.

I graduated with a 2.8 gpa (3.8 my final 2 years, mentioned in all my addendums) and 160 lsat

In order to get that kind of compensation, one needs to be in the top of their class at these 2 schools. I know someone who went to Cardozo and they were median, needless to say, she had a really tough time finding a job, but eventually did. It's not that Cardozo is a terrible school, because the people I know that went/go there say that they enjoy it there, but the employment prospects just aren't that great. I think all lower ranked NY schools saw a slight increase in employment this past year though, according to LST.

I mean it's completely up to you as to what you plan on doing, but I just want to share this with you http://abovethelaw.com/2015/06/this-is- ... tatistics/

[Rigo]

Gotta go Cardozo here between these two options.
Seton Hall is 100% not worth that much more money.