I really need your input PLEASE Forum

[Emersonman]

Originally applied to University or Oregon as a safety school, but they gave me an undeniable scholarship. I have gotten into one t14 school (full ticket price) and various 20s-50s schools with at most a 1/2 scholarship. My question is: should I go to Oregon? I want to start a firm with my dad one day, but before that I would like to work for the SEC. Any thoughts?

LSAT: 75th percentile
GPA: 3.7

Also, what about UNLV law school? Just curious.

[Nachoo2019]

Reapply and get your applications in day one next cycle. If you get your apps in early your results will be much better. Also might as well retake if you only studied 2 months. You have the potential to score so much better!

[Shootin]

Reapply and get your applications in day one next cycle. If you get your apps in early your results will be much better. Also might as well retake if you only studied 2 months. You have the potential to score so much better!

Did you even read his post?


I don't really know anything about these schools, but if you will be working with your dad I would think you should follow the cheapest option.

[superpatton]

Will you have a guaranteed job at graduation with your dad? If so, I think that Oregon, or maybe UNLV sound like good options.

If not, I think you need to look at what area of the West you would like to be in. Utah (and BYU for that matter) would be best for Utah, but I would definitely negotiate for more money since that cost of attendance might be a little steep.

Have you talked to your dad about what option would be best for you? If you want to be working with him and starting a firm, it might make sense to just talk to him about what school he thinks would be best for you.

Good luck!

[Nachoo2019]

Reapply and get your applications in day one next cycle. If you get your apps in early your results will be much better. Also might as well retake if you only studied 2 months. You have the potential to score so much better!

Did you even read his post?


I don't really know anything about these schools, but if you will be working with your dad I would think you should follow the cheapest option.

Yeah, and OP will need to be debt free or close to it if he is going to start a firm. OP will be financing law school through loans then spending more money starting a firm? With that GPA he could have a full ride to any of those schools and all they need is a couple extra points on the LSAT.


If their dad is such a "highly esteemed" lawyer then they can start the firm without OP who will be fresh out of law school in 3 years with 0 experience and 0 clients(and not so valuable to the firm).

Yes I read the post and yes I stand by my advice. Minimizing debt is key for someone planning to start their own firm.

My advice would be much different if their dad had a guaranteed job waiting for OP at Watchell after graduation.

[Emersonman]

.

[cavalier1138]

OP here, the reason he does not want to start a firm yet is because he needs people that are trustworthy that can help him on the work. He pulls in enough work to employ 6 lawyers full-time, and he only has 2 that he trusts (and that he hasn't caught being sketchy). He also wants to do it with his son, ya know, like a bonding thing.

I've talked to my father many times, and it is a difficult decision to make, because I can't just show up and take daddy's clients like in some professions, I actually have to also prove myself and prove that I am capable and smart, etc. He did a few clerkships after he finished law school, and is obviously wanting me to do one too. If not, then I will need to get a job at the SEC or something that can build me some credit that his already-existing clients can trust (and can have something to trust more than just the affiliation between him and me).

I honestly don't know if I could score higher on the LSAT, ya I only studied for 2 months, but 159 was my very highest score on my practices, but I guess it is worth considering?

What clerkships would you want to have as possibilities?

And is the SEC really a reasonable goal from any of the schools you applied to?

[071816]

please find another career, friend.

-your pal, el chimperino

[unlicensedpotato]

I would strongly urge you to reconsider/delay this plan. There's a lot of red flags to unpack here.

[Emersonman]

I think a retake might be out of the question here - a year is a lot of time in my particular situation.

[cavalier1138]

I think a retake might be out of the question here - a year is a lot of time in my particular situation.

What particular situation? A year is the same amount of time no matter where you are in your life, but it could mean the difference between $60-90,000 in debt (because you didn't include cost-of-living in your OP, from what I can see). And it can only help your future career to have less debt and/or go to a better school.

But I'm still curious about your clerkship/SEC aspirations. Local/state clerkships are possible from pretty much anywhere, but federal clerkships are difficult to come by outside of the T14. And while I'm not familiar with the SEC's hiring practices, I'm guessing it's a similar situation there. So I'm not understanding where you think you're going to come by this experience that your father wants you to have before you actually get the firm started.

[unlicensedpotato]

I think a retake might be out of the question here - a year is a lot of time in my particular situation.

I was not referring to a retake necessarily. It sounds like your dad will not be working at this firm in 5-10 years. You won't be out of law school for 3 years, plus apparently 1-2 years of clerking. Then he will be out of the picture; it's you who have to live with the consequences. Unless your dad is going to pay for the law school, I really would not do this. It sounds like he has planned your entire life for something that he is only willing to commit a couple of years to.

[Nachoo2019]

I think a retake might be out of the question here - a year is a lot of time in my particular situation.

I was not referring to a retake necessarily. It sounds like your dad will not be working at this firm in 5-10 years. You won't be out of law school for 3 years, plus apparently 1-2 years of clerking. Then he will be out of the picture; it's you who have to live with the consequences. Unless your dad is going to pay for the law school, I really would not do this. It sounds like he has planned your entire life for something that he is only willing to commit a couple of years to.

[Barack O'Drama]

Apply next cycle. I'm sure your dad won't hang you out to dry. Even so, its worth it to make sure you take on less debt and a school that you won't risk getting failing grades from.

[unlicensedpotato]

Sorry OP and I don't mean to pile on, but I think your questions could really be framed as:

-Can a typical law student at one of these schools obtain valuable clerkships or a position at the SEC?; and

-Can a third year associate from one of these schools (potentially with the experience above) obtain clients and run a securities litigation firm, with some mentorship from their father, who is highly skilled in the field?

The answer to both of these, in my opinion, is no.

Just want to provide food for thought so you know what you're getting into.

[Emersonman]

My particular situation is that I need to get going asap on getting my law degree because if I don't hurry then the connections I have at the SEC (there's your answer whether or not I can get a position at the SEC) will soon no longer be there. Asking them to stick around for one more year is asking a lot, since my connection is nearing retirement.

I think you bring up good points, unlicensedpotato! I really won't need to obtain new clients in the firm that we will be creating, just functioning as an associate to my father's clients, then slowly over time taking them over. He isn't planning on snapping his fingers and disappearing, but will slowly leave. His opinion, as well as the rest of his buddies at the SEC, is that school only matters up until you have built or gained skills and a reputation in the real world. I am not discrediting any of your advice, just informing you on what the other side is telling me! Does any of this change your opinion?

Also, do you not think that University of Washington is a good option should I get in?

[cavalier1138]

My particular situation is that I need to get going asap on getting my law degree because if I don't hurry then the connections I have at the SEC (there's your answer whether or not I can get a position at the SEC) will soon no longer be there. Asking them to stick around for one more year is asking a lot, since my connection is nearing retirement.

I think you bring up good points, unlicensedpotato! I really won't need to obtain new clients in the firm that we will be creating, just functioning as an associate to my father's clients, then slowly over time taking them over. He isn't planning on snapping his fingers and disappearing, but will slowly leave. His opinion, as well as the rest of his buddies at the SEC, is that school only matters up until you have built or gained skills and a reputation in the real world. I am not discrediting any of your advice, just informing you on what the other side is telling me! Does any of this change your opinion?

Also, do you not think that University of Washington is a good option should I get in?

None of this changes my opinion, unless that connection at the SEC is literally promising you a job. Big firms and federal agencies will often reject resumes out-of-hand if the applicant doesn't come from the right school.

I think the main issue is that you are consulting older lawyers, and they are giving you outdated information. When your dad and his friends were starting out, they graduated law school into the situation they're describing to you. There are a lot more lawyers competing for jobs now, and if you ask any recent graduate about their experience, it will not match with what you're hearing from these guys who are nearing retirement.

[FamilyLawEsq]

Go to Oregon.

[deadpanic]

My particular situation is that I need to get going asap on getting my law degree because if I don't hurry then the connections I have at the SEC (there's your answer whether or not I can get a position at the SEC) will soon no longer be there. Asking them to stick around for one more year is asking a lot, since my connection is nearing retirement.

Let me let you in on something; most every law student going in to law school over-values this or that lawyer connection for a future job. Unless your connection is basically the top lawyer in the SEC, hiring is pretty much lock-step based on strict cut-offs of grades/certain schools before you even get the interview, kind of like big law. The SEC is a big bureaucratic agency with certain gov't hiring procedures. It doesn't really work that this one attorney out of several SEC attorneys is just going to say, "Well, there is this kid out of Oregon and his dad is a just a hell of a guy, so we'll bring him on board." Doesn't work that way--this is not like some small private law firm where that may work.

Why would Washington be a good option? It would be at sticker and crazy expensive, probably leaving you 6 figures in debt to go work with your dad.

[pancakes3]

the delay of 1 year in the grand scheme of 3 years of law school plus 2-3 years at the SEC before joining your dad is nothing.

also, how much does your dad *really* want to help you if he's putting that much emphasis on early retirement when doing so is to your massive detriment?

[Barack O'Drama]

You even say in your OP that you could have done much better if you did things differently. Well, that said, you should do things differently. Apply early in the cycle next year, and retake the LSAT. It sounds like more hive-mind drivel, but I absolutely assure you that it is the right thing to do. Try to aim of the 170+ club and get into a good school with $$$.

[Dcc617]

Is there a recent proliferation of these threads or am I just noticing more? By "these threads" I mean one where the OP absolutely refuses to listen to any advice or opinions and just ends up arguing to rationalize their decision until they disappear from the site.

[timbs4339]

You are not getting an entry-level job at the SEC because of connections. It just does not work like you think it does. Your dad's friends are lying to you.

[magicmagic]

I ADORE Vegas and you have a full ride, so I vote for UNLV. Especially if you're at all interested in conflict resolution. UNLV is a new law school that has the potential to improve its ranking significantly over the next 10-20 years, and they have a very loyal alumni network.

The "just retake!" philosophy bothers me. Statistically, not everyone is going to go to a T14 (or T20, or T50) law school. There will always be Columbia people, and there will always be Fordham people, and there will always be Syracuse people. A free degree from UNLV is not a bad way to go. But you will probably be committing to working in Nevada for at least the first 5-10 years.

If your father is currently practicing in Oregon, you should probably go to Oregon. Regional schools are just that: regional. They place best in their own state.

[mvp99]

I ADORE Vegas and you have a full ride, so I vote for UNLV. Especially if you're at all interested in conflict resolution. UNLV is a new law school that has the potential to improve its ranking significantly over the next 10-20 years, and they have a very loyal alumni network.

The "just retake!" philosophy bothers me. Statistically, not everyone is going to go to a T14 (or T20, or T50) law school. There will always be Columbia people, and there will always be Fordham people, and there will always be Syracuse people. A free degree from UNLV is not a bad way to go. But you will probably be committing to working in Nevada for at least the first 5-10 years.

If your father is currently practicing in Oregon, you should probably go to Oregon. Regional schools are just that: regional. They place best in their own state.

Why does the bolded matter at all?