ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss Forum

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emkay625

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ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by emkay625 » Mon May 23, 2016 3:56 pm

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/05/the-2016 ... eat-again/

1. Yale (+4)
2. Stanford (0)
3. Chicago (0)
4. Penn (0)
5. Harvard (-4)
6. UVA (0)
7. Duke (0)
8. Northwestern (+5)
9. Cornell (0)
10. Berkeley (+1)
11. Columbia (-3)
12. U. Texas (+2)
13. U. Mich (-1)
14. Vanderbilt (+1)
15. NYU (-5)
16. BC (0)
17. BU (+4)
18. Iowa (-1)
19. UCLA (0)
20. Notre Dame (+3)
21. Georgetown (-1)
22. WUSTL (+3)
23. Georgia (+4) (tie)
23. W&M (+1) (tie)
25. W&L (+5)
26. U. Alabama (+6)
27. Ohio St. (+2) (tie)
27. UNC (-1) (tie)
29. SMU (+8)
30. U. Florida (+5)

Too lazy to type more.
Last edited by emkay625 on Mon May 23, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bach-City

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by Bach-City » Mon May 23, 2016 3:58 pm

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Last edited by Bach-City on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BeatriceButler

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by BeatriceButler » Mon May 23, 2016 4:18 pm

Glad to see my school made the biggest improvement from last years rankings in the top 30.

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jnwa

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by jnwa » Mon May 23, 2016 4:20 pm

Columbia 10 NYU 15. T6 more like TTTTTT

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by TLSDookie » Mon May 23, 2016 4:20 pm

GTttown indeed.

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cavalier1138

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 23, 2016 4:41 pm

Jesus, these are worse than the USNWR rankings. They move schools up/down five places at a time without a single explanation for what changed so drastically.

This list practically reads like clickbait instead of any kind of honest ranking system.

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Pomeranian

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by Pomeranian » Mon May 23, 2016 4:52 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Jesus, these are worse than the USNWR rankings. They move schools up/down five places at a time without a single explanation for what changed so drastically.

This list practically reads like clickbait instead of any kind of honest ranking system.
To be fair, US News also has wild swings in schools too.

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mornincounselor

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by mornincounselor » Mon May 23, 2016 4:54 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Jesus, these are worse than the USNWR rankings. They move schools up/down five places at a time without a single explanation for what changed so drastically.

This list practically reads like clickbait instead of any kind of honest ranking system.
Well, they do list the criteria they judge by and the ratio of each to the overall value. However, I agree they should make it more explicit how each of those factors has changed from a prior to the current year.

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grand inquisitor

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by grand inquisitor » Mon May 23, 2016 4:56 pm

if i could go back in time and choose a law school all over again i would definitely rely upon this list

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somethingElse

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by somethingElse » Mon May 23, 2016 4:59 pm

Can't argue with any of these rankings, frankly.

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pancakes3

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by pancakes3 » Mon May 23, 2016 5:00 pm

grand inquisitor wrote:if i could go back in time and choose a law school all over again i would definitely rely upon this list
Extrapolating Baylor, my advice would be to sit a cycle out and the unicorn world will be yours.

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by BigZuck » Mon May 23, 2016 5:42 pm

UT is FIRMLY in the T12, above Michigan and GULC

Who came up with this list, me?

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by BigZuck » Mon May 23, 2016 5:42 pm

NYU as a T15 seems appropriate tho

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cavalier1138

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 23, 2016 5:46 pm

BigZuck wrote:NYU as a T15 seems appropriate tho
Out of morbid curiosity, why?

The Columbia and NYU rankings make the least sense out of the top grouping.

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emkay625

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by emkay625 » Mon May 23, 2016 5:57 pm

BigZuck wrote:UT is FIRMLY in the T12, above Michigan and GULC

Who came up with this list, me?
:D

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jnwa

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by jnwa » Mon May 23, 2016 6:12 pm

Of the rankings criteria

15% is education cost
5% is debt per job
5% is salary to debt ratio


25% of the criteria is solely or largely about how much the school costs. Obviously debt is a big part of the equation but isnt this a tad redundant.

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cavalier1138

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 23, 2016 6:15 pm

Actually, now that I have some time to read it right... are they completely ignoring LRAP in order to make schools with higher PI numbers and high tuition costs seem like they're somehow worse investments?

I know that any ranking list is basically bullshit, but if I'm reading that correctly, this one is objectively idiotic.

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jnwa

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by jnwa » Mon May 23, 2016 6:18 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Actually, now that I have some time to read it right... are they completely ignoring LRAP in order to make schools with higher PI numbers and high tuition costs seem like they're somehow worse investments?

I know that any ranking list is basically bullshit, but if I'm reading that correctly, this one is objectively idiotic.
Yeah they are...the 30% criteria for "quality jobs" only applies to BL+FC. Their rationale is that those are the only jobs that allow you to pay off debt.

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TheRealSantaClaus

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by TheRealSantaClaus » Mon May 23, 2016 6:19 pm

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Last edited by TheRealSantaClaus on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by Hikikomorist » Mon May 23, 2016 6:20 pm

jnwa wrote:Of the rankings criteria

15% is education cost
5% is debt per job
5% is salary to debt ratio


25% of the criteria is solely or largely about how much the school costs. Obviously debt is a big part of the equation but isnt this a tad redundant.
It's also really dumb from a helping-prospective-students perspective, because no one cares about how much debt their average classmate is incurring.

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cavalier1138

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 23, 2016 6:21 pm

jnwa wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Actually, now that I have some time to read it right... are they completely ignoring LRAP in order to make schools with higher PI numbers and high tuition costs seem like they're somehow worse investments?

I know that any ranking list is basically bullshit, but if I'm reading that correctly, this one is objectively idiotic.
Yeah they are...the 30% criteria for "quality jobs" only applies to BL+FC. Their rationale is that those are the only jobs that allow you to pay off debt.
The level of stupid in that line of reasoning is making my head hurt.

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by BigZuck » Mon May 23, 2016 6:25 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:NYU as a T15 seems appropriate tho
Out of morbid curiosity, why?

The Columbia and NYU rankings make the least sense out of the top grouping.
I think the prohibition on callout posts applies even if the poster has retired. Tread carefully friend.

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abl

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by abl » Mon May 23, 2016 6:30 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Actually, now that I have some time to read it right... are they completely ignoring LRAP in order to make schools with higher PI numbers and high tuition costs seem like they're somehow worse investments?

I know that any ranking list is basically bullshit, but if I'm reading that correctly, this one is objectively idiotic.
That's how I read it as well, which means that Yale (with a great loan assistance program and high average cost proportionately borne more by students who can afford it) is penalized vs BYU (without much of a loan assistance program and a lower average cost borne more evenly by everyone). This is a pretty minor point, though, as most law schools have pretty similar costs. (Also, I'm not sure the data's available to incorporate things like LRAP and PI and even how aid gets distributed into a ranking.) It's also a pretty minor point because average debt is meaningless as debt at graduation is pretty much the only factor that you can individually evaluate with a high degree of certainty.

There are lots of nonsensical things in ATL's rankings, though. I highly doubt that anyone at ATL thinks that this is a particularly valid measure of anything at all. I suspect that this is ATL's attempt to create a methodology that results in a ranking that's similar enough to USNWR to look legit but different enough to generate page views / discussion. My guess is that the first dozen or so ranking methodologies that they tried either resulted in lists that were basically the same as USNWR or were too different to be taken seriously by anyone (e.g., didn't have HYS in the top 10, had a totally random school at 4, etc).

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by Tiago Splitter » Mon May 23, 2016 7:25 pm

They seem to address the HYS glitch by giving 5% to federal judges and 5% to SCOTUS clerks.

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Re: ATL 2016 Rankings are Out: Discuss

Post by abl » Mon May 23, 2016 8:10 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:They seem to address the HYS glitch by giving 5% to federal judges and 5% to SCOTUS clerks.
Yep--both of which are totally ridiculous bases for a ranking. (I think fed clerkships would probably be a factor in an ideal law school ranking. I can't think of any advantages--and I can think of many disadvantages--of using just SCOTUS clerks.)

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