Considering declining large scholarships and retaking LSAT Forum

[SunDevil14]

I am considering turning down large scholarships and in sum cases full tuition in order to get into a top 15 school.
I believe I may know the answer to this question, though I am having a hard time deciding.

Background information:

I am from Arizona, and have ties to the legal community here through family and friends of family. Furthermore, my father has his own firm and has been largely successful. My great uncle and his son also have a successful firm in Arizona. My cousin works for a large from in New York City.

I would like to work in California (especially Southern California), New York, Las Vegas or Chicago. I have also considered working with my father in Arizona and eventually taking over the firm. This is something we have discussed, and though it would be a good opportunity I am not entirely convinced that it is something I would like to do.

As far as my career goals, I am interested in big law, international law, and gaming law, though I am open to an array of possibilities.

I would be financing my education through a combination of family assistance and loans.

GPA 3.83 Summa Cum Laude and LSAT is 160.

The first time I took the LSAT I studied for about 3 months. During my time studying I was under a lot of stress due to sickness, the death of my grandmother, and a few other factors. I believe that with my GPA as high as it that a score in the mid 160's would significantly increase my chances of getting into a top 15 school.

Schools and Scholarships

University of Minnesota
Rank: 22
Tuition: 50,373
COL (includes books and school expenses) 16,166
Scholarship: 28,000 maintain 2.3

University of Indiana
Rank: 25
Tuition: 51,801
COL: 21,312
Scholarship: 35,000 maintain 2.3

Ohio State
Rank: 30
Tuition: 44,081
COL: 20,112 (Although I have could live with my aunt and uncle, which would lower the cost significantly) I'd assume to around 5,000
Scholarship: 16,000 maintain 2.3

I believe that I may be able to negotiate scholarship offers since all three schools are similarly ranked and in the northern Midwest.

University of Miami
Rank 60
Tuition: 47,774
Col: 27,041
Scholarship: Full tuition, good academic standing

University of Las Vegas
Rank: 78
Tuition: 37,149
COL: 21,464
Scholarship: Full tuition, GPA 2.5. I am also able to get a quarter of my tuition paid should I fall below 2.5

Likely my cheapest option

Pepperdine
Rank: 65
Tuition 51,180
COL: 28,620
Scholarship: 45,000 GPA 2.8

University of San Diego
Rank 74
Tuition 48,831
COL: 21,170
Scholarship: 40,000 GPA 2.8

I believe I can negotiate scholarship offers between these two California schools.

Still waiting on Fordham and UCI

[Draconem]

Retake.

[SunDevil14]

Thanks for the input.

Ideally I like to get into Cal Berkeley or UCLA which have mean LSAT scores that hover in the mid 160's. I also find it quite interesting that Berkeley's mean score is much lower than other schools in the top ten.

I have done some research and found that the average improvement in LSAT scores on a second attempt is 2.8. I'm curious if a 3 point improvement is truly indicative of students that score 160 give or take a point? Rather, is the average skewed by poor test takers doing significantly better >10 points, and or strong test takers that do not improve or receive a lower score than an initial high score?

Is 5 or 6 points realistic improvement for someone that intentionally scored 160?

I do not mind doing my own research, I am just having trouble find additional data on retakes other than what the average is, how to prepare, etc.

Much thanks if you one could point me in the right direction to find that information.

[somethingElse]

You get to decide how much that data affects you. Personally, I would put just about 0 stock in it. You brought up some good points regarding how it might be skewed. There's also the notion that most people who take the LSAT do not study nearly as hard as they could have. Read up on some of the guides on this site regarding study schedules/materials. I really like TLS1776's, but lots of people like Pithypike's (might have his/her username off a bit but you'll recognize it based on that). My point is that if you truly give it your all, study your ass off and utilize one of those guides, you will score higher than the average improvement.

Your GPA is high enough to get you into literally any law school. It will be WELL worth your time to put in the effort for a second take. Be confident in yourself. If you put in a higher than average effort (which frankly isn't that hard) you're setting yourself up to improve by a lot more than 2 points. But ultimately, don't worry what the average improvement is!

[somethingElse]

Also check out this thread:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=263904

[rinkrat19]

Going to any of those schools with that GPA and your career goals is a total waste.

[Rigo]

Definitely retake. If you don't, you'll always wonder "what if" and probably regret it.
Also, the schools you applied to don't make sense. Regional schools in the midwest (where did that come from) but not ASU/UA?
Go to the LSAT Prep forum for tips and support.

[SunDevil14]

The regional Mid West Schools came as an after thought. They seemed to be decently ranked and felt there would be a good chance of getting a scholarship.

I got my undergraduate degree at ASU, and would like a change. As for U of A, I have been too Tucson and am not a big fan. I was accepted there, and received 50% scholarship, but wasn't going to considerate unless they gave me full tuition.

My fear is taking on a lot of debt. Although, presumably if I retake and score higher, then scholarship offers will be better in or similar amounts to better schools.

I presume that it would still be in my best interest to retake even if UCI gave me a full ride. (Not likely, though best case scenario)

[Rigo]

Rankings don't matter. There's the T14 followed a hundred+ regional schools. If you don't want to practice in the midwest, you shouldn't be going to those schools.

You really should retake. At the very least you should be aiming for UCLA & USC scholarships. A solid LSAT score will get you T14 though which makes biglaw a real possibility, and best of all, the T14 are geographically mobile degrees so you aren't stuck in Indiana or wherever or forced to go back to Arizona because your dad is the only person who will hire a newly minted JD from out of state.

Retake. I improved over 10 points. Granted I didn't study like you did for my first take, but I'm willing to bet you didn't truly study effectively. Your GPA shows you have it in you. Formulate a plan and start ASAP for the September 24th administration.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Retake.

[SunDevil14]

Rankings don't matter. There's the T14 followed a hundred+ regional schools. If you don't want to practice in the midwest, you shouldn't be going to those schools.

You really should retake. At the very least you should be aiming for UCLA & USC scholarships. A solid LSAT score will get you T14 though which makes biglaw a real possibility, and best of all, the T14 are geographically mobile degrees so you aren't stuck in Indiana or wherever or forced to go back to Arizona because your dad is the only person who will hire a newly minted JD from out of state.

Retake. I improved over 10 points. Granted I didn't study like you did for my first take, but I'm willing to bet you didn't truly study effectively. Your GPA shows you have it in you. Formulate a plan and start ASAP for the September 24th administration.

Thanks for the help and sobering advice.

10 points would be a bit of stretch, but like you stated my studying wasn't the most effective. Though I hit a mental wall when test day came up, (Averaging low 160's), I think that I'd be able to push past it.

Following the death of my grandmother I didn't study for two weeks, due to a combination of grief, stress, and a mountain of school work. (Which professors were nice enough to grant me extensions). Furthermore, under a lot of stress from being ill and a combination of outside factors. I suppose all I have to lose is time, and a year is not much in the grand scheme of things.

[Rigo]

Yeah get a low-stress job, hang out with friends and family, and stick to a study regimen. Do things you've always wanted to do.
Look for a job in LA even if you think it's a place you'd like to live and end up. I moved there and it wasn't as great as I thought it would be. You're young. Try things out. It may be the last free year you have until retirement. I've enjoyed my gap years.

Think of every point on the LSAT as $25k in scholarship money. The payoff is pretty big.
Also send ASU an app next time, even if just to have a logical fallback that you can negotiate with.

Good luck!

[ponderingmeerkat]

Yea dude...you're the classic "need to retake" guy. With that GPA you could retake, gain a handful of points, and have a ton of better options open up. Good luck and study hard.

[Mikey]

It's good that you're considering a retake as the best way to go. Unlike some people who get a 150 and say that a retake isn't necessary when their goal is biglaw, lol. I encourage a retake since all of these schools are regional schools. Plus, your GPA combined with a 170+ is sex.

[jbagelboy]

Absolutely retake

[SunDevil14]

I have decided to retake.

For what it is worth, I spoke with my cousin that has a big law job in NYC. He said he was in a similar position as me when he first took the LSAT 10 years ago, basically a lot of crap in life not going well and plenty of distractions. First time he took the LSAT he got a 154. After realizing that his opportunities were worse than mine currently are, he decided to buckle down, studied hard, and retake. On his second attempt he got a 170. He went to George Town and got a job in a big NYC firm shortly after graduation.

All that being said, if my cousin that was in a similar situation as myself could improve by 16 points, then I think I can surely improve at least 5 or 6. Thanks for the input to all the posted.