Midwest schools Forum

[chooy]

Deleted

Thanks everyone

[hairbear7]

Where do you want to live when you graduate and what type of job do you want?

[BigZuck]

Why do you care if Indiana is 21 or 31 or 41 in the rankings? It's still the same school, it wouldn't be (or make you) any more prestigious the higher it was ranked or anything like that.

From your questions, it sounds like you care about:
US News Rankings
Facilities
Quality of the education
What the other students are like

None of that stuff really matters. US News Rankings don't really matter at all, once you're outside the top schools everything is regional. Just focus on cost and employment. That's basically all that matters.

Quality of the education will be pretty much the same no matter where you go. Law school is pretty much just law school, most of the classes will be mostly pointless, the professors will act like law professors and tease out insignificant details from cases and hide a bunch of balls to fill up 3 hours a week so as to attempt to justify their existence, etc. By the same token, law students will mostly be law students no matter where you go to school.

Facilities and other classmates might matter on the margins, but shouldn't be determinative at all. If you have two schools that make equal sense cost/career wise, then you can focus on marginal stuff like quality of the facilities.

None of these schools really make sense without a strong desire/reason to stay in their regions long term (and by region here I pretty much just mean state that they are located in). It sounds like you approached your application cycle by applying to schools that are roughly ranked equivalently and then wanted to see what happened. That's not a proper application cycle IMO.

Focus on what kind of job you want and where you want it to be and then backwards plan it from there.

[chooy]

See that's the thing- I don't really mind where I live.

[chooy]

.

[stego]

There is no way to tell where you'd have the best GPA. You should assume median at any of them.

[BigZuck]

You need to retake/reapply, your career goals are too difficult to attain from these schools. Focus on the T14.

It seems like you approached all this from the standpoint of "I want to wear a suit and make money, so I'll apply to law school." You don't care where that job is, just as long as there is money to be made and a suit to be worn. You're focusing on arbitrary high numbers (the higher the ranking, the better. The more attorneys in the firm, the better). I get it, that's how most people approach the decision to attend law school. But that's the wrong approach to take, IMO.

You need to go back to square one. Figure out if you want to be an attorney, and if you do, why. Figure out where you want to be long term. Figure out what kind of life you want to live, and how much salary/debt will make it comfortable to live that life. Do some soul searching. If you really do want to work at a big firm for whatever reason and you really are totally geographically open, then focus on getting into the very best school you can (at an appropriate cost of course). Just based on the aspirations you listed here none of these schools make sense because they will likely be very limiting, geographically and job opportunity-wise.

[cavalier1138]

See that's the thing- I don't really mind where I live.
For me, Living in Minnesota=Living in Indianapolis=Living in Chicago/Illinois

As for type of work.. Hm.. Law firm with 101+ attorneys
I'm not interested in government/public interest jobs.

No. Just no.

Chicago is not even remotely comparable to Minneapolis, which is not comparable to Indiana. I can't tell if you're just playing the "Aw shucks, what do I know about city living, I'm just a farm boy, etc." card for laughs or because it saves you the trouble of actually having to do a bit of work researching the regions these schools are in. But knock it off. Do your damn research and figure out where you want to work.

Oh, and biglaw ain't happening here. Plan on mid-sized firm in one of those states with those schools.

[guynourmin]

I actually think living in Minneapolis is pretty different than living in chicago, which happens to be pretty different than Indianapolis. You're going to live where you go to school, likely for a decade at least, so go visit Minneapolis and Chicago (forget Indiana, seriously) and go where you like more if you're going to go to law school this year. Really, probably don't go to law school this cycle. You have no goals it sounds like (101+ atty firms is NOT a goal...what if there are 99 attorneys there?), and goals are important. If you're going to continue to have the nothing goals you've stated, t14 is your only option.

[rustyboxer]

Two weeks ago you were concerned about working in NY/Chicago OP, now you do not care?

[Jchance]

Law firm with 101+ attorneys
I'm not interested in government/public interest jobs.

There are like 3 law firms in Minnesota and Indiana with 100+ attorneys, and there are a very strong chance that you won't get those firms, so that narrow the choices down to Chicago. But UCIC is not known for Biglaw Placement, so if u want Chicago, retake for UChicago or NU.
/thread

[Serett]

My concerns about these 3 schools...
How far will UMN drop in rankings?
Will UIUC bounce back to 20-25?
Will Indiana stay 20-25?
Are facilities at UMN that bad? It's not a crucial factor but it will be helpful to know what to expect
Besides google and each school's website, where can I find more pictures?
Where would I get the best gpa?
Where would I get the best education?
Atmosphere of each school? (Cut throat? Relaxed? Backstabbers?)

Hope this helps!

[Rigo]

Definitely need to educate yourself more, but if you insist on going and your ties are equal in all three states, I'd go UIUC for the slightly higher biglaw placement (see if they'll go higher through scholarship negotiations though! $120k is their ceiling iirc but it doesn't hurt to ask)

[Mack.Hambleton]

yeah UIUC places significantly better than the others, but if you want to actually have a good chance of working at a firm go to Northwestern/Uchicago/Michigan

[LittleGiants16]

I actually think living in Minneapolis is pretty different than living in chicago, which happens to be pretty different than Indianapolis. You're going to live where you go to school, likely for a decade at least, so go visit Minneapolis and Chicago (forget Indiana, seriously) and go where you like more if you're going to go to law school this year. Really, probably don't go to law school this cycle. You have no goals it sounds like (101+ atty firms is NOT a goal...what if there are 99 attorneys there?), and goals are important. If you're going to continue to have the nothing goals you've stated, t14 is your only option.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Indianapolis or Indiana. Is Indy the same as Chicago or NYC? No, but it has a nice restaurant scene, great sports, several strong bar scenes, and a low cost of living.

[chooy]

Two weeks ago you were concerned about working in NY/Chicago OP, now you do not care?

Yeah I did more research the past couple of weeks and now I don't care that much LOL

[rustyboxer]

Two weeks ago you were concerned about working in NY/Chicago OP, now you do not care?

Yeah I did more research the past couple of weeks and now I don't care that much LOL

Lived in Indiana my whole life and would not recommend moving here on a whim. Haha.

[randomstudent]

chooy,

I'm not sure if this reply is too late for you, but re: a couple of your questions about the University of Minnesota.

How far will UMN drop in rankings? Who knows? It's been consistently top 20 for decades, but as you know, in the last ranking, we dropped to 22. The school is definitely making every effort to keep admissions standards high, but there is definitely a lot of worrying here about that subject.

Are facilities at UMN that bad? It's not a crucial factor but it will be helpful to know what to expect. It's not flashy. (It's not nearly as nice as UVA's library, e.g., with dark mahogany wood and leather chairs.) But the building is clean, spacious, comfortable, and (importantly, in the winter - lol) warm. We also have free printing and high-speed Internet throughout most of the school, all of which means I had one friend who would come to the law school just to hang out and stream Netflix, even when their apartment is just across the street.

Atmosphere of each school? (Cut throat? Relaxed? Backstabbers?) Most of the students here are very supportive, even when they are pitted against each other for class assignments. I can give a ton of specific examples if you PM me. There were times when I felt horrible and depressed, and my classmates went out of their way to support me.

Professors: A pre-law advisor from Virginia told me before I chose Minnesota that Minnesota had one of the best faculty in the country. I think he said that he'd seen some study ranking Minnesota's faculty as one of the two or three best in the country. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, but I've really liked most of my professors here. It's one thing just to be a good academic. It's another to also be a clear and approachable teacher.

# of 100+ attorney firms in Minnesota: A previous poster said, "There are like 3 law firms in Minnesota and Indiana with 100+ attorneys." As of 2015, there are actually 9 firms in Minnesota with 100+ attorneys, ranging in size from 122 to 281 lawyers. See http://minnlawyer.com/2014/12/15/minnes ... irms-2015/. That's still very few firms compared to the number of firms in Chicago or NYC, of course, but take that for what it's worth.