Gunning for Midwest Forum

[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

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[guynourmin]

This board has made me believe STL biglaw is difficult to get if not from STL. That would make me believe you would not have a huge edge coming from a t14, assuming your grades are right (that is, I would want to say a top quarter/third WUSTL student with no STL ties would be looked at similar to a median t14 student with no STL ties...either way, not too favorably. If I'm wrong, someone will point it out I hope!)

If you received a decent scholarship with a 165 I'll assume you have an above average gpa? If you're a 3.7/165 I'd say retake. 5 points. And you'd probably have a similar debt load at a t14 next year. It would be worth the wait imo.

I'm in a similar boat as you: deposited at wustl, love rick and morty, ultimately hesitant to commit, but I think I'll be there this fall. If I was gunning for biglaw, I probably wouldn't be, though.

[WinterComing]

0L here, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I live in St. Louis and know the local Big Law market fairly well.

As you note, ties are super important here. Firms have been burned by Wash. U. grads who weren't really committed to St. Louis, so they're wary to hire people they don't think will stay. But if you can sell your ties to the area, Wash. U. definitely has a strong reputation at local firms, where you'll be compared favorably to kids from Mizzou or SLU. That said, if you already have strong ties to St. Louis, going away for school doesn't seem to hurt you. Bryan Cave would love to hire a Harvard grad who wants to work Midwest Big Law for $125K, though paying to go to Harvard just so you can come back to St. Louis would be overkill.

The problem is that there simply aren't many SA jobs available in St. Louis, so if you don't get one, what's your fallback option? What happens if you get bad grades? Or maybe years down the line you end up wanting to move to a coast for one reason or another?

With your goals, Wash. U. for close to free is a solid outcome, and I wouldn't fault you for not retaking and going this fall. But if I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider sitting out, retaking, and depending on how you do, targeting something like applying ED at Northwestern. Legal employers in St. Louis swoon over Northwestern grads and that degree will be more transportable if your goals change down the line.

[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

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[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

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[mogwli]

The only way I can imagine going to a T14 would get you significantly better improvements for STL would be Northwestern, Michigan (maybe?), or HYS.

This depends a little on the size of the scholly you got from WUSTL. Sure if you did a retake and got into Northwestern, you'd have an arguably bigger chance at biglaw, but you also have debt to worry about. You'd have to do a lot better to comparable $$.

Like WinterComing said, retaking could not only maybe get you into NU and other T14, but also maybe a fullride (or close) at WUSTL. Getting 165 1st time seems like you'd have a fair chance at doing better second time around.

As an example, I probably wouldn't take NU with like 150k+ debt vs a close to full ride at WUSTL if I was totally positive I wanted to stay in STL after.

[WinterComing]

The only way I can imagine going to a T14 would get you significantly better improvements for STL would be Northwestern, Michigan (maybe?), or HYS.

Yeah, I don't think T14 helps all that much for STL, but I do think it helps in case OP strikes out in STL or ultimately decides he wants something other than STL (Wash. U. people do OK in Chicago, too, but that's probably more grade-dependent).

As an example, I probably wouldn't take NU with like 150k+ debt vs a close to full ride at WUSTL if I was totally positive I wanted to stay in STL after.

That's why I suggested ED at Northwestern. It comes with a built-in $150,000 scholarship. But OP would probably need to improve his LSAT by several points to be competitive for that.

OP, I understand why you don't want to share too much, but how assured would you be of a job in your secondary East Coast home market if things don't work out in St. Louis? If you've got an uncle with a law firm there (or something like that) and he'll give you a job out of Wash. U. guaranteed, then you're not taking much of a risk by going this year.

[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

Winter, I wouldn't have anything lined up with 100% certainty. That said, I'm lucky enough to be in a close circle of really smart, successful folks, several of them lawyers, who would go out of their way to help me find something. It's not quite as good as having a family member who's a partner somewhere, but if worst comes to worst, I like my odds of landing something decent back home. Aside from that, I've got connections and prior w.e. in non-law related industries where having a J.D. isn't looked at with suspicion (to the extent that those industries exist) that I could fall back on.

[WinterComing]

Winter, I wouldn't have anything lined up with 100% certainty. That said, I'm lucky enough to be in a close circle of really smart, successful folks, several of them lawyers, who would go out of their way to help me find something. It's not quite as good as having a family member who's a partner somewhere, but if worst comes to worst, I like my odds of landing something decent back home. Aside from that, I've got connections and prior w.e. in non-law related industries where having a J.D. isn't looked at with suspicion (to the extent that those industries exist) that I could fall back on.

It sounds like you're leaning toward going to Wash. U., and if so, I think you'd be making a fine choice. For your goals and for a cheap price, that's a good outcome.

[Traynor Brah]

It sounds like you're leaning toward going to Wash. U., and if so, I think you'd be making a fine choice. For your goals and for a cheap price, that's a good outcome.

I concur with this

[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

This is good to hear. I'm guessing that if TLS tells me I'm not making a dumb move, I'm probably not making a dumb move. Thanks, everyone!