Cornell (Half) vs. StJohn's (Full) Forum

[silverdoe91]

I am not doubting you. I had a great great grandchild go to Princeton Law with similar numbers.

Haha. Clearly, there's no such thing as Princeton law. Now who's the troll?

[silverdoe91]

Cornell, not close. Also factor in that the cost of living is significantly less, about 5-10k/year. Nobody from St. Johns would say St. Johns with a straight face. After COL, it's probably 50-60k more, which is not a small amount of money, but isn't substantial enough to justify SJU here. There's also the cost of investing 3 years of your life, which should factor in, though only you could price the value of 3 years of your life. Point is it's not 0 vs. x. It's the value of 3 years + COL vs. X + 3 years + COL.

I'm living with my parents so COL for all schools in NYC including SJU would be $0.

If you were debating full at Fordham with free COL vs. Cornell then Fordham would be the choice. But even at a $0 COA SJU is not worth it when Cornell at $120k is on the table IMO

How about Fordham with a COA of 60k? It's half of what I'd pay for Cornell (120-140k) since Fordham's tuition is less and I would pay $0 for COL at Fordham. Would that be worth it? I can also work while in Fordham during my 2L and 3L years to mitigate the costs, since I will be in a big city where finding a job is more possible than in Ithaca.

[LandMermaid]

Cornell, not close. Also factor in that the cost of living is significantly less, about 5-10k/year. Nobody from St. Johns would say St. Johns with a straight face. After COL, it's probably 50-60k more, which is not a small amount of money, but isn't substantial enough to justify SJU here. There's also the cost of investing 3 years of your life, which should factor in, though only you could price the value of 3 years of your life. Point is it's not 0 vs. x. It's the value of 3 years + COL vs. X + 3 years + COL.

I'm living with my parents so COL for all schools in NYC including SJU would be $0.

If you were debating full at Fordham with free COL vs. Cornell then Fordham would be the choice. But even at a $0 COA SJU is not worth it when Cornell at $120k is on the table IMO

How about Fordham with a COA of 60k? It's half of what I'd pay for Cornell (120-140k) since Fordham's tuition is less and I would pay $0 for COL at Fordham. Would that be worth it? I can also work while in Fordham during my 2L and 3L years to mitigate the costs, since I will be in a big city where finding a job is more possible than in Ithaca.

Why are you so hell-bent on fabricating some reasoning not to go to cornell? You seem desperate to find these "what-if"caveats that will justify the choice not to go. Finding a job is not necessarily more possible out of Fordham than in Ithaca. LRAP will be fine, and if not, you'll make enough money to pay off your loans. Of course you could possibly get a job at one of these other schools. Of course you will save a little money up front. But the reality of the situation is that cornell is absolutely the best option for you at a reasonable price. over a hundred people see that the benefits of reaping what cornell can provide you far outweigh the not-terrible costs. cornell will give you better options for any job, better salaries, and a better network. Those are facts, that everyone has tried to share with you multiple times. If you don't want to go and you want to live at home with your parents, fine. But understand the decision you are making is likely a bad one (that, sure, you might defy totally- but you probably won't) and stop asking us all to help you come up with some random, anecdotal justification to avoid the most logical and best answer. You're not going to convince us, and we aren't going to convince you obviously. Why make a poll if you're going to ignore it and look for the reasoning of a few people compared to almost two hundred? Ultimately, you are going to have to live with your decision for the rest of your life. It doesn't affect the rest of us whether you pick a great school for a good deal or risk three years of your life somewhere else.

[silverdoe91]

Why are you so hell-bent on fabricating some reasoning not to go to cornell? You seem desperate to find these "what-if"caveats that will justify the choice not to go. Finding a job is not necessarily more possible out of Fordham than in Ithaca. LRAP will be fine, and if not, you'll make enough money to pay off your loans. Of course you could possibly get a job at one of these other schools. Of course you will save a little money up front. But the reality of the situation is that cornell is absolutely the best option for you at a reasonable price. over a hundred people see that the benefits of reaping what cornell can provide you far outweigh the not-terrible costs. cornell will give you better options for any job, better salaries, and a better network. Those are facts, that everyone has tried to share with you multiple times. If you don't want to go and you want to live at home with your parents, fine. But understand the decision you are making is likely a bad one (that, sure, you might defy totally- but you probably won't) and stop asking us all to help you come up with some random, anecdotal justification to avoid the most logical and best answer. You're not going to convince us, and we aren't going to convince you obviously. Why make a poll if you're going to ignore it and look for the reasoning of a few people compared to almost two hundred? Ultimately, you are going to have to live with your decision for the rest of your life. It doesn't affect the rest of us whether you pick a great school for a good deal or risk three years of your life somewhere else.

The reason why I keep asking what the few people who voted against Cornell think is because none of them have expressed their reasons in written form yet. So far it's just been pro-Cornell people that have voiced their opinions. Idk if maybe they're just too shy to speak up since the overwhelming response is towards Cornell and they don't want to be the odd one out.

I've also read other topics on this forum that advise against picking up 100k in debt unless you want to spend the rest of your life paying back loans or being in a bigLaw job you hate, which both sound like miserable options to me. Like I said before, I just want to see both sides of the argument, and so far, on this topic, I've only seen one side.

[Rigo]

When do you have to decide by / when will this thread die?

[deepseapartners]

The reason why I keep asking what the few people who voted against Cornell think is because none of them have expressed their reasons in written form yet. So far it's just been pro-Cornell people that have voiced their opinions. Idk if maybe they're just too shy to speak up since the overwhelming response is towards Cornell and they don't want to be the odd one out.

They are trolls. No one who's posting here is shy, especially if they have a contrarian opinion. Like many other things in this forum, you've been told that about 10 different times, but you aren't listening to everyone who is telling you that your assumptions are wrong.

[silverdoe91]

When do you have to decide by / when will this thread die?

I have to decide by tmrw when my deposit is due.

[cron1834]

It's an anonymous internet forum dude. FFS, if someone had a plausible argument for you to go to St.John's, they'd have come up with it by now.

[dabigchina]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

[Rigo]

So have Cardozo and Fordham really not given you scholarship info yet or did you actually get half rides?

[silverdoe91]

So have Cardozo and Fordham really not given you scholarship info yet or did you actually get half rides?

Still waiting on Cardozo, but Fordham gave me 35k so far (I asked for more but we'll see what happens; apparently they do not give out more than 40k a year to anyone.) But even with 35k a year, my entire COA for Fordham would be 60k upon graduation which is literally half of the 120k-140k I'd have to pay for Cornell. I'm sure my employment chances will also be twice as much, but Idk if it's really worth it to spend that much $$

[silverdoe91]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

[dabigchina]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

I am going to school on the east coast and I fly back home to visit my SO every month. Still worth it. Suck it up and go to Cornell. You won't have much time for a social life the first 1.5-2 years anyway.

[jbagelboy]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

[jbagelboy]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

I am going to school on the east coast and I fly back home to visit my SO every month. Still worth it. Suck it up and go to Cornell. You won't have much time for a social life the first 1.5-2 years anyway.

well, that's not quite fair. law students still have social lives. that's more of a personal choice.

leaving the city so often to fly home must take a toll, though; i'm sorry about that.

[silverdoe91]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

I am going to school on the east coast and I fly back home to visit my SO every month. Still worth it. Suck it up and go to Cornell. You won't have much time for a social life the first 1.5-2 years anyway.

well, that's not quite fair. law students still have social lives. that's more of a personal choice.

leaving the city so often to fly home must take a toll, though; i'm sorry about that.

Yeah, I wouldn't even be able to afford to do that because I don't have money like that LOL

[silverdoe91]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

But then there's always the environment that I might not like. Being stuck with just 200 or so people in a wintery place when I absolutely hate winter (I literally get seasonal depression) seems like it would create an environment that I would not enjoy so much. I mean what if I don't like those 200 people? I've literally paid 100k to put myself in a secluded bubble with no one else but them.

[dabigchina]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

I am going to school on the east coast and I fly back home to visit my SO every month. Still worth it. Suck it up and go to Cornell. You won't have much time for a social life the first 1.5-2 years anyway.

well, that's not quite fair. law students still have social lives. that's more of a personal choice.

leaving the city so often to fly home must take a toll, though; i'm sorry about that.

100% worth it in my personal situation. I've gotten really good at sleeping/studying on planes.

Anyway OP, my point is your geographical concerns pretty small and easy to work around.

[dabigchina]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

But then there's always the environment that I might not like. Being stuck with just 200 or so people in a wintery place when I absolutely hate winter (I literally get seasonal depression) seems like it would create an environment that I would not enjoy so much. I mean what if I don't like those 200 people? I've literally paid 100k to put myself in a secluded bubble with no one else but them.

Doesn't sound like you want to go to law school TBH. I would do something else. Have you thought about an MPA?

[jbagelboy]

OP: how much of your reluctance is because Ithaca is boring? Tell the truth.

That's a large part of it honestly. Not just the social life, weather, but also the distance from NYC job opportunities. It seems like it'll be frustrating for me to have to pay $180 on a roundtrip ride to the city 5 hours each way just to go to interviews and get internship opportunities. Also, I don't drive and I'm adverse to cold weather. I already hate how cold it gets here in NYC. So going to Cornell seems like it would be shooting myself in the foot, especially with all the debt I'd take out to do it.

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

But then there's always the environment that I might not like. Being stuck with just 200 or so people in a wintery place when I absolutely hate winter (I literally get seasonal depression) seems like it would create an environment that I would not enjoy so much. I mean what if I don't like those 200 people? I've literally paid 100k to put myself in a secluded bubble with no one else but them.

law school isn't about any of that stuff. that's all trivial you have to be a little less concerned about the "experience" you're going to have and more focused on the opportunities the school will afford you as an attorney.

[silverdoe91]

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

Do you know how employers feel about Fordham? Their BigLaw stats are better than Cardozo/SJU and they are higher ranked and get more jobs in NYC bc of their location, but idk how well their networking is for all their students and not just the top 10%. I feel like if I asked the Fordham office about it they'd probably give me fabricated answers, yet no one on this forum seems to want to answer my questions about Fordham.

[silverdoe91]

Doesn't sound like you want to go to law school TBH. I would do something else. Have you thought about an MPA?

Can you even get a job with that?

[dabigchina]

Doesn't sound like you want to go to law school TBH. I would do something else. Have you thought about an MPA?

Can you even get a job with that?

Getting an MPA from Harvard Kennedy or Woodrow Wilson>>>>>>>>> any of the TTTs you were considering, especially given ur PI bent.

ETA: fordham sucks . don't go to fordham

[Rigo]

So have Cardozo and Fordham really not given you scholarship info yet or did you actually get half rides?

Still waiting on Cardozo, but Fordham gave me 35k so far (I asked for more but we'll see what happens; apparently they do not give out more than 40k a year to anyone.) But even with 35k a year, my entire COA for Fordham would be 60k upon graduation which is literally half of the 120k-140k I'd have to pay for Cornell. I'm sure my employment chances will also be twice as much, but Idk if it's really worth it to spend that much $$

You should not deposit at St. John's (there is absolutely no reason to go there if Fordham is only $60k) but deposit at Cornell to keep the (best) option open.

[jbagelboy]

you are completely missing the point. all cornell students interview together in new york and boston: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... job_fairs/, and employers come to Ithaca: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... erview.cfm

there are no logistical disadvantages to being a cornell student when it comes to employment opportunities. and you wouldn't have to drive. you're "shooting yourself in the foot" far more severely by attending a school like cardozo or st johns that employers don't want to hire from even if they're right next door

Do you know how employers feel about Fordham? Their BigLaw stats are better than Cardozo/SJU and they are higher ranked and get more jobs in NYC bc of their location, but idk how well their networking is for all their students and not just the top 10%. I feel like if I asked the Fordham office about it they'd probably give me fabricated answers, yet no one on this forum seems to want to answer my questions about Fordham.

they feel far worse about fordham than they feel about cornell

and by that I mean, the Cornell JD is much more useful and in much higher demand