Columbia ($) vs. NYU ($$) Forum

[together41]

NYU offered me $75K while Columbia offered me $25K.
Which is the better option?

[GreenEggs]

NYU.

CLS is not worth 50k over NYU

[landshoes]

NYU 100%, not even a question

[obx]

NYU.

CLS is not worth 50k over NYU

[dabigchina]

this isn't even a choice.

[jbagelboy]

Try to negotiate. If CLS doesn't budge, go to NYU.

There are dozens of threads on this.

[kingpin101]

Pretty much every Columbia vs NYU thread comes down to: which one gave more money? (and if sticker, don't go)

[Glacial]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

[Rigo]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

How so

[landshoes]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

How so

[jbagelboy]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

This is a meaningless statement. There isn't really an HYS and CLS and UChicago are basically exact peers (which are both very comparable to HLS in placement with some disadvantages, but less so to YLS).

[rpupkin]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

Although this post is wrong, I respect it for managing to fit pro-CLS and pro-Penn trolling in the same sentence.

[Glacial]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

This is a meaningless statement. There isn't really an HYS and CLS and UChicago are basically exact peers (which are both very comparable to HLS in placement with some disadvantages, but less so to YLS).

My statement was based on academic quality alone. CLS has an exceptional faculty, probably the third best in the nation overall, which gives it an edge over Chicago. Twenty years ago, it was the other way round thanks to highly influential Chicago law and economics school. But that's no longer the case, and there aren't many "rock star" professors left at Chicago or those who are still there are too old (with all due respect) to offer something new. I mean, even in the field of law and economics, you have much more vibrant schools like George Mason.

What makes you say that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to HLS in placement? When was the last time Chicago placed 20% or more in clerkship? Or H placing 60% or more in Biglaw? If you look at the employment stats for the past several years, you'll see that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to NYU and Penn respectively. Would you say then that Chicago and Penn are "basically exact peers"? Why not? Yes, that's what I meant in the first place - the same logic applies to CLS>Chi.

[landshoes]

Well, that's certainly an opinion.

Even if the faculty at Columbia were superior in quality (which you haven't made much of a case for), it would be irrelevant to the typical student experience.

[jbagelboy]

Money is important, but academically CLS is closer to HYS rather than Chi/NYU/Penn.

This is a meaningless statement. There isn't really an HYS and CLS and UChicago are basically exact peers (which are both very comparable to HLS in placement with some disadvantages, but less so to YLS).

My statement was based on academic quality alone. CLS has an exceptional faculty, probably the third best in the nation overall, which gives it an edge over Chicago. Twenty years ago, it was the other way round thanks to highly influential Chicago law and economics school. But that's no longer the case, and there aren't many "rock star" professors left at Chicago or those who are still there are too old (with all due respect) to offer something new. I mean, even in the field of law and economics, you have much more vibrant schools like George Mason.

What makes you say that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to HLS in placement? When was the last time Chicago placed 20% or more in clerkship? Or H placing 60% or more in Biglaw? If you look at the employment stats for the past several years, you'll see that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to NYU and Penn respectively. Would you say then that Chicago and Penn are "basically exact peers"? Why not? Yes, that's what I meant in the first place - the same logic applies to CLS>Chi.

Oooh wow, lots of interesting statements here. I'm tempted to say it's not worth it to go over them with you since you are probably an 0L and you will learn, but for posterity's sake, a few points on your entirely vacuous faculty and placement aspersions. First, last year Chicago produced a higher % of 9-mo federal clerks than Harvard (although Harvard produced more alumni clerks and CLS alumni clerk numbers were roughly Chi's average 9-mo due to post-plan hiring practices and heavier transactional preference at CLS and to a lesser extent HLS). It's extremely rare for HLS to send >20% clerk at 9-mo. HLS and CLS EIP's are the closest in result to any school, although HLS places better into non-NY selective firms. Take a look at summer class composition and you'll see H/C are always proportionally aligned to school class size, while Chi/SLS are more idiosyncratic. HLS always sends far more than 60% of its class into biglaw, and its EIP success rate figures are very similar to Chi/CLS (~90%+). So your rhetorical questions actually have answers to support the opposite premise, and the three schools have very comparable placement, but HLS has certain advantages over each in different ways.

CLS, Chicago, and HLS all do look a lot like Penn and NYU in many years, so I'd say the schools are all pretty comparable. Underneath the ABA data, however, lie some more nuanced conclusions when you look at more discrete information like OCI success rates, firm class composition and hiring at the most selective shops, alumni clerk placement, fed honors placement, skadden fellows and other elite fellowships, ect. I can't aggregate all this information for you here, but it's irrefutable that there's no way CLS resembles Y or to a lesser extent H/S more than it resembles UChicago--and UChicago and CLS resemble each other more than either compares to Penn when you add a year-on-year granular approach.

Lastly, your faculty point is entirely unsupportable along any metric of evaluating faculty quality. YLS, Chicago, HLS, CLS, and NYU have very strong, roughly equally eminent professors. YLS and Chicago probably have the most eminent scholars per capita, while HLS and NYU have the most prized faculty in absolute terms. Columbia sits somewhere in the middle with a deep back bench of highly regarded and prolific permanent faculty and an eclectic and dynamic group of visiting professors. But I still think out of these five, the Columbia argument is in many ways the toughest to make.

[GreenEggs]

My statement was based on academic quality alone. CLS has an exceptional faculty, probably the third best in the nation overall, which gives it an edge over Chicago. Twenty years ago, it was the other way round thanks to highly influential Chicago law and economics school. But that's no longer the case, and there aren't many "rock star" professors left at Chicago or those who are still there are too old (with all due respect) to offer something new. I mean, even in the field of law and economics, you have much more vibrant schools like George Mason.

What makes you say that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to HLS in placement? When was the last time Chicago placed 20% or more in clerkship? Or H placing 60% or more in Biglaw? If you look at the employment stats for the past several years, you'll see that CLS and Chicago are "very comparable" to NYU and Penn respectively. Would you say then that Chicago and Penn are "basically exact peers"? Why not? Yes, that's what I meant in the first place - the same logic applies to CLS>Chi.

Are you a student at CLS?

Kind of unsure what you're basing some of this off of.

Maybe before the mass exodus of professors to NYU.

[somethingElse]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

Need more info bro.

[kcdc1]

LOL at the idea that T6 law schools meaningfully differ in their ability to train lawyers. I hope this goes 10+ pages.

[together41]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

Need more info bro.

177/3.96
Got into Harvard and UChicago but practically won't be options. Columbia's more need based aid was a factor in not receiving a higher scholarship offer.
Have a slight preference for CLS and worried if NYU lacks some of the prestige that CLS has that could hurt me in my career

[somethingElse]

I feel like you should have better options with those stats. When did you apply? And what are your career goals?

[together41]

I feel like you should have better options with those stats. When did you apply? And what are your career goals?

I applied in November, got in around January/February.
Career goals are probably to work in corporate straight out of law school and maybe then go for a clerkship.

[somethingElse]

Gotcha. So plenty early...Did you apply to the lower T14? Reason I ask is because usually the consensus on here (there are exceptions of course) is that full ride/high scholly at lower T14 >>> low scholly at higher T14 if your goal is biglaw.

[Rigo]

Or is the subtext of "practicality" that you need to stay in NYC for personal reasons?

[landshoes]

I don't think NYU will foreclose any options for you in a serious way...generally, neither of these schools seem like a great deal at this cost if you want to go into biglaw.

Without knowing what the personal issues are, NYU seems pricey and Columbia seems really pricey. Another school with a bigger scholarship or Harvard at sticker both seem like better options than Columbia with only $25k.

I think HLS at sticker is kinda nuts, but for you, Columbia is less prestigious than HLS for nearly the same price...if Columbia is justifiable over NYU, so is HLS.

[together41]

Joined NYU class of 2019.