UIUC full-tuition or wait out another year? Forum

[headrangerwoody]

My current options are:
- UIUC full-tuition
- wait out another year and retake LSAT in September

My stats are 164/3.92. I've taken the LSAT twice and studied a month before each one. I have had a few PTs in the 168-170 range though I don't know how to judge the reliability of those scores. I am primarily interested in tax/corporate law. I have some interest in intellectual property.

I am extremely debt-averse, and quite frankly, I'm chomping at the bit to get started building a career. I have already taken a gap year and given my choice of undergrad major, I am looking at abysmal job prospects. Besides scholarship, I will be financing everything through loans except rent - I am lucky to have a live-in partner who has generously agreed to pay rent for the duration of law school. I don't think I would go to law school if I couldn't keep my debt to around 60K, and I wouldn't consider going to any school at sticker. I am really attracted to the low cost-of-living in Urbana-Champaign as well as the frozen tuition rate and unconditional scholarship. I am originally from Illinois (I now live in the South) so I have ties to the area and really love Illinois. Career-wise, I have no strong preference for where I end up working though, except for CA or TX, I would not want to be further west than IL.

Concerns: I know most people would tell me to wait and go to a better school next year. My worry is that let's say I somehow managed a 168 in September, I could get into a better school, but their tuition would be considerably higher, they might be located in a very expensive place to live, and their scholarship offer would be no where near what I am being offered now. I'd like to do this as cheaply as possible.

I'm interested to hear what you think I should do. Given my situation, would I be foolish to pass up this offer from UIUC? If you think I should wait and retake, will it be possible for me (assuming a higher LSAT) to not only get into a higher-ranked school but to also get significant scholly (I'm talking in the 60% - 75% tuition range)? And if so, what schools might feasibly grant significant scholly to someone with my GPA and slighty better LSAT(non-URM), but that preferably aren't located somewhere with a crazy high COL?

Thank you in advance for your input. My deposit deadline is this Friday, and needless to say, this decision has been stressful to make.

[dabigchina]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

[pterodactyls]

Retake

[headrangerwoody]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

[urbanist11]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

Yes it's possible to get $50,000+/year with a 3.9/168+

[Tiddlywinks]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

People with 3.9s have been getting 150k with 168/169. Get a 170-172 and you're looking at 180k. In any case, I'd definitely sit out and retake. I had a 162 and sat out a cycle. Nabbed a 169 and it was a whole new ballgame. It can't be stated enough how learnable the test is

[headrangerwoody]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

Yes it's possible to get $50,000+/year with a 3.9/168+

I don't mean to be difficult, and I so hope this to be true for Northwestern, but I have to ask, do you have a source? When I look at the mylsn graph, it seems people with those stats are getting considerably less.

[headrangerwoody]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

People with 3.9s have been getting 150k with 168/169. Get a 170-172 and you're looking at 180k. In any case, I'd definitely sit out and retake. I had a 162 and sat out a cycle. Nabbed a 169 and it was a whole new ballgame. It can't be stated enough how learnable the test is

Thank you for your response. I am leaning more toward waiting a year.

[urbanist11]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

Yes it's possible to get $50,000+/year with a 3.9/168+

I don't mean to be difficult, and I so hope this to be true for Northwestern, but I have to ask, do you have a source? When I look at the mylsn graph, it seems people with those stats are getting considerably less.

Yes - look at my LSN link in my TLS profile

[Specter1389]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

If you have a 168-169, your chances look very good at getting into Northwestern early decision which comes with a $150k scholarship. Using a 3.7-4.0 GPA and a 168-169 LSAT on mylsn, it looks like all 4 people who ED to Northwestern were accepted under the program.
http://mylsn.info/rn7cva/

Also, you stated you only studied for one month prior to taking the LSAT both times. I recommend you study until you are consistently scoring a 168 or above and then signing up for a test. One month is not enough time to adequately prep for most people. With a 3.92 GPA, I believe you definitely have the capability of scoring high and getting significant money to multiple T-14s as shown below.
http://mylsn.info/q09hu6/

[Specter1389]

Also this profile, 3.92 GPA and a 169 LSAT. Nabbed $210k to Northwestern. I would kill to have your GPA, don't waste it.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/floridacoastalorbust

[headrangerwoody]

Also this profile, 3.92 GPA and a 169 LSAT. Nabbed $210k to Northwestern. I would kill to have your GPA, don't waste it.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/floridacoastalorbust

Holy crap! Thank you so much for posting further info/sources. I think coming to this forum was the right decision; I'm much more certain waiting is the right thing to do. Cheers!

[headrangerwoody]

retake and go to northwestern for free/close to nothing.

Do you think thats really possible though with a 168/169? I've been using mylsn and it seems like I'd have to score much higher than that. And I'm honestly just not sure thats possible for me.

People with 3.9s have been getting 150k with 168/169. Get a 170-172 and you're looking at 180k. In any case, I'd definitely sit out and retake. I had a 162 and sat out a cycle. Nabbed a 169 and it was a whole new ballgame. It can't be stated enough how learnable the test is

Hey thanks so much for your response. I really just needed reassurance that significant scholly was still possible at better schools without scoring a god-tier 178 or something. Everyone has been so helpful in this thread. I'm convinced waiting is the right decision.

[willows]

Take the full-tuition at UIUC -- as long as you can stay at the top of your class, which your GPA and LSAT indicate you have a good likelihood of doing.

If you can stay at the top 10% of your class academically, get on law review, take leadership positions in student organizations, and TA a few classes, you are assured to get an offer in big law.

Even if you *can* get a large scholarship at a school like Northwestern, remember that (1) tuition isn't the only cost to consider, and (2) there's a large chunk of tuition that you'll still have to pay! Given that you're debt-adverse, I understand that these aren't considerations that you can just ignore, which many others are likely to do. And while you have a partner who is willing to pay all of your cost of living expenses, wouldn't it be nice to put as small of a burden on their generosity as possible?

Keep in mind that UIUC is a regional school, so if you want to work somewhere other than Chicago/Illinois, then you should probably retake and go somewhere else. But if you like Chicago/Illinois and want to stay here, if debt is really important to you, and if you can excel academically, UIUC is a great, affordable (*Free!*) choice, despite what people may say. However, if you have doubts that you can stay in the top 10% of UIUC, then go somewhere else. Otherwise, you'll have a damn hard time finding a job.

[cron1834]

Take the full-tuition at UIUC -- as long as you can stay at the top of your class, which your GPA and LSAT indicate you have a good likelihood of doing.

If you can stay at the top 10% of your class academically, get on law review, take leadership positions in student organizations, and TA a few classes, you are assured to get an offer in big law.

Even if you *can* get a large scholarship at a school like Northwestern, remember that (1) tuition isn't the only cost to consider, and (2) there's a large chunk of tuition that you'll still have to pay! Given that you're debt-adverse, I understand that these aren't considerations that you can just ignore, which many others are likely to do. And while you have a partner who is willing to pay all of your cost of living expenses, wouldn't it be nice to put as small of a burden on their generosity as possible?

Keep in mind that UIUC is a regional school, so if you want to work somewhere other than Chicago/Illinois, then you should probably retake and go somewhere else. But if you like Chicago/Illinois and want to stay here, if debt is really important to you, and if you can excel academically, UIUC is a great, affordable (*Free!*) choice, despite what people may say. However, if you have doubts that you can stay in the top 10% of UIUC, then go somewhere else. Otherwise, you'll have a damn hard time finding a job.

This should be an auto-ban.

[willows]

Take the full-tuition at UIUC -- as long as you can stay at the top of your class, which your GPA and LSAT indicate you have a good likelihood of doing.

If you can stay at the top 10% of your class academically, get on law review, take leadership positions in student organizations, and TA a few classes, you are assured to get an offer in big law.

Even if you *can* get a large scholarship at a school like Northwestern, remember that (1) tuition isn't the only cost to consider, and (2) there's a large chunk of tuition that you'll still have to pay! Given that you're debt-adverse, I understand that these aren't considerations that you can just ignore, which many others are likely to do. And while you have a partner who is willing to pay all of your cost of living expenses, wouldn't it be nice to put as small of a burden on their generosity as possible?

Keep in mind that UIUC is a regional school, so if you want to work somewhere other than Chicago/Illinois, then you should probably retake and go somewhere else. But if you like Chicago/Illinois and want to stay here, if debt is really important to you, and if you can excel academically, UIUC is a great, affordable (*Free!*) choice, despite what people may say. However, if you have doubts that you can stay in the top 10% of UIUC, then go somewhere else. Otherwise, you'll have a damn hard time finding a job.

This should be an auto-ban.

Why?

[cron1834]

Take the full-tuition at UIUC -- as long as you can stay at the top of your class, which your GPA and LSAT indicate you have a good likelihood of doing.

If you can stay at the top 10% of your class academically, get on law review, take leadership positions in student organizations, and TA a few classes, you are assured to get an offer in big law.

Even if you *can* get a large scholarship at a school like Northwestern, remember that (1) tuition isn't the only cost to consider, and (2) there's a large chunk of tuition that you'll still have to pay! Given that you're debt-adverse, I understand that these aren't considerations that you can just ignore, which many others are likely to do. And while you have a partner who is willing to pay all of your cost of living expenses, wouldn't it be nice to put as small of a burden on their generosity as possible?

Keep in mind that UIUC is a regional school, so if you want to work somewhere other than Chicago/Illinois, then you should probably retake and go somewhere else. But if you like Chicago/Illinois and want to stay here, if debt is really important to you, and if you can excel academically, UIUC is a great, affordable (*Free!*) choice, despite what people may say. However, if you have doubts that you can stay in the top 10% of UIUC, then go somewhere else. Otherwise, you'll have a damn hard time finding a job.

This should be an auto-ban.

Why?

Because the bolded is both a truism and a wildly unlikely outcome on average. Why not just get a similar scholarship to a school that's way better, and work way less hard in law school for the same job? The LSAT is literally a stinking multiple choice test, and it's easier than any law school exam you'll have during 1L.

[willows]

Take the full-tuition at UIUC -- as long as you can stay at the top of your class, which your GPA and LSAT indicate you have a good likelihood of doing.

If you can stay at the top 10% of your class academically, get on law review, take leadership positions in student organizations, and TA a few classes, you are assured to get an offer in big law.

Even if you *can* get a large scholarship at a school like Northwestern, remember that (1) tuition isn't the only cost to consider, and (2) there's a large chunk of tuition that you'll still have to pay! Given that you're debt-adverse, I understand that these aren't considerations that you can just ignore, which many others are likely to do. And while you have a partner who is willing to pay all of your cost of living expenses, wouldn't it be nice to put as small of a burden on their generosity as possible?

Keep in mind that UIUC is a regional school, so if you want to work somewhere other than Chicago/Illinois, then you should probably retake and go somewhere else. But if you like Chicago/Illinois and want to stay here, if debt is really important to you, and if you can excel academically, UIUC is a great, affordable (*Free!*) choice, despite what people may say. However, if you have doubts that you can stay in the top 10% of UIUC, then go somewhere else. Otherwise, you'll have a damn hard time finding a job.

This should be an auto-ban.

Why?

Because the bolded is both a truism and a wildly unlikely outcome on average. Why not just get a similar scholarship to a school that's way better, and work way less hard in law school for the same job? The LSAT is literally a stinking multiple choice test, and it's easier than any law school exam you'll have during 1L.

Fair enough, I understand what you're saying. But completely discounting another person's first hand experience and suggesting it should be "auto-banned" is beyond the pale. It's also a truism to say T14 schools have better big law percentages than T1 schools generally. I've addressed the original poster's specific and personal concerns and given another perspective other than the "T14 or nothing" approach.

It's really not "wildly unlikely" if he/she is the type of person who is capable of doing that, which is something he/she needs to consider when making this personal decision. And getting full tuition at UIUC is not the same thing as getting a hefty scholarship at a T14 school -- it's the difference between paying nothing and still having to pay something, so saying he/she will get a "similar scholarship" is inaccurate. Taking the LSAT again is another cost he/she will have to incur -- both in terms of paying for the test itself, and also the opportunity cost of taking more time to study and put off starting school and his/her career, which is something the original poster said was very important to him/her. It's totally reasonable and valid to give this person an accurate expectation for how they need to perform at UIUC in order to get a big-law outcome. Not everyone knows that going in.

[Roundhill]

.

[wons]

Why are you not adequately studying for the LSAT? 1 month before a test is not sufficient for the amount of money at stake. Show an appropriate level of respect/commitment for what you're about to do and you will be richly rewarded. The median lifetime earning for a NW grad dwarfs that of someone from UIUC.