Cornell $ vs GULC $$ Forum

[Nlawsing]

So I am having a hard time deciding between the two! I was offered 30K a year at GULC and I am from the DC area so I would be commuting to school paying nothing in housing. That would put me at roughly 25K a year in tuition graduating with 75k debt .
Cornell offered 25K a year with COL and tuition Im looking at 52K a year and about 150K in debt after graduation.

Career Goals: Interested in International law in the long term but very much so want to get big law after graduation more specifically large New York firms with a strong focus on International Arbitration. I definitely want to live in NYC but DC is an option as well.

Impression of Schools: I visited both GULC and Cornell. Personally I fell in love with GULC the culture and the environment was very relaxed and welcoming. I love the DC area and its close to home. Also had a great experience with their BLSA. Cornell was okay very isolated, not very diverse, students emphasized how much of a studious environment it is and that their main extracurricular was "drinking". Really prefer to be in a more city atmosphere but would suffer through Ithaca for three years for better career options.

Other options: Riding the waitlist out at Harvard, NYU and Chicago. offered a full ride at Illinois and half scholly at GW . Not really considering those two.

Not retaking please don't suggest that.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

[cavalier1138]

I'm always confused when people say they won't even consider a retake, because just based on your school list, it's clear that you would be in a much better position to get what you want with a retake.

That said, Georgetown has been slipping in their employment stats out of school, and they don't place as well as Cornell in NY.

So if you're absolutely dead-set on not improving your options by doing what you clearly already know you should, take Cornell. It's more debt, but Georgetown significantly lowers your chances of getting the regional placement and the biglaw job you want.

[James.K.Polk]

Didn't consider either school, but I'm always confused when someone says they live in city X, therefore city X is free. Do you live with your parents? Or you just mean you won't have to move? Aren't you still paying rent? And even if you're living rent free w/ family - are you really going to do that all 3 years?

[TLSModBot]

If you want NY Biglaw you are taking much less risk going to Cornell than GULC. Literally the only reason I'd take GULC over Cornell is if you wanted DC biglaw super super bad and were fairly risk-tolerant in accepting something less than a top firm here.

If it's accurate, the debt load for DC isn't bad. But your biglaw outcome is WAY better at Cornell and especially for the NY market.

Also retake.

[Londonbear]

Agreed. I think 2014 ABA's employment rates for BigLaw (501+) at Cornell was about 54% while GT was only 38%. That being said, I think if you are at least median and a decent interviewer, you'll get NY Biglaw at GT. But I wouldn't take the risk unless you really want to stay in DC and your greater happiness staying close to home/at home would contribute to better grades than at Cornell.

[existentialcrisis]

Retake, but if you're not going to, then Cornell. Also I really, really don't buy the different law school cultures thing.

[Clemenceau]

I think if $75k is a realistic debt total for gulc, then it's defensible. $156k+ for cornell is slightly harder to justify. That said, I strongly suspect you're low balling the debt total.

Just saw in your post history that you're sitting with 3.7/162 and URM. I think you should retake and reapply. A retake would make a world of difference.

[cron1834]

Retake. Like 3 more questions on a multiple choice test would be worth 50 grand at Cornell and get you better options elsewhere. Don't be too stubborn to do the right thing.

[barkschool]

Retake. Like 3 more questions on a multiple choice test would be worth 50 grand at Cornell and get you better options elsewhere. Don't be too stubborn to do the right thing.

idk why it takes spending $100k in loans to realize they could have spend 1 year essentially paying themselves that 100k in a single take.


Edit: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN YOUR LIFE THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM WAITING A YEAR TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL

edit 2: despite what your parents think or some deep down thought that you "need to get started on your life" or some bull

[Nlawsing]

Didn't consider either school, but I'm always confused when someone says they live in city X, therefore city X is free. Do you live with your parents? Or you just mean you won't have to move? Aren't you still paying rent? And even if you're living rent free w/ family - are you really going to do that all 3 years?

Yup will live rent free with my mom for all three years

[Nlawsing]

I've gotten such good advice from TLS but geez the people on here are so condescending and a tad bit psycho I might add. Someone is asking for advice based on the options they've presented to you. You have no idea who they are what their circumstances are whatsoever yet your willing to make blanket conclusive statements on what is their best possible option is. Even after they've told you they are not considering it! LOL i just don't understand the logic. And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live . You literally have no idea! Give advice based on the question that OP posed! stop it with trying to impose your own notions of whats best for them , having not known a single thing about them. If you really feel the urge to do otherwise do it on someone else thread and leave room for those that can actual lend so helpful insight. Also thanks to those that gave actual advice.

[Nlawsing]

Agreed. I think 2014 ABA's employment rates for BigLaw (501+) at Cornell was about 54% while GT was only 38%. That being said, I think if you are at least median and a decent interviewer, you'll get NY Biglaw at GT. But I wouldn't take the risk unless you really want to stay in DC and your greater happiness staying close to home/at home would contribute to better grades than at Cornell.

Okay thanks ! thats one of the things I'm trying to decide on, whether the happier enviroment of being close to home will benefit me.

[ProfPasteur]

And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live.

If you only have 4 years to live, then I would like to strongly advise you not to spend 3 of those years in law school. But on a more serious note, based on my tiny bit of 0L knowledge, the retake advice does seem to be solid. If you're definitely against a retake, then others will probably have much better advice than what I can contribute.

[cron1834]

I've gotten such good advice from TLS but geez the people on here are so condescending and a tad bit psycho I might add. Someone is asking for advice based on the options they've presented to you. You have no idea who they are what their circumstances are whatsoever yet your willing to make blanket conclusive statements on what is their best possible option is. Even after they've told you they are not considering it! LOL i just don't understand the logic. And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live . You literally have no idea! Give advice based on the question that OP posed! stop it with trying to impose your own notions of whats best for them , having not known a single thing about them. If you really feel the urge to do otherwise do it on someone else thread and leave room for those that can actual lend so helpful insight. Also thanks to those that gave actual advice.

Sorry, but this is really not-smart. People advise this way because TLS is a repository of literally thousands of data points regarding admissions decisions... and the weight of the data suggests it's pretty much never a good idea to spend twice as much money as you need to on law school, or go to schools half as good just-because. Even the extreme examples you suggest, which are one-in-a-million cases, are debatable.

[emkay625]

OP, what is your reasoning for not wanting to retake/wait a year? It seems like from your reply above you have a good reason. Sharing it would likely prevent people from ignoring your request and replying with retake.

[poptart123]

And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live.

If you only have 4 years to live, then I would like to strongly advise you not to spend 3 of those years in law school. But on a more serious note, based on my tiny bit of 0L knowledge, the retake advice does seem to be solid. If you're definitely against a retake, then others will probably have much better advice than what I can contribute.

Sorry I have to offer the opposite advice. If you only have four years then cost shouldn't matter at all, and law school might be fun because you don't really need to study since you will never really get to practice. You could just weave in and out of class and take vacations whenever you want.

[whatislife95]

I've gotten such good advice from TLS but geez the people on here are so condescending and a tad bit psycho I might add. Someone is asking for advice based on the options they've presented to you. You have no idea who they are what their circumstances are whatsoever yet your willing to make blanket conclusive statements on what is their best possible option is. Even after they've told you they are not considering it! LOL i just don't understand the logic. And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live . You literally have no idea! Give advice based on the question that OP posed! stop it with trying to impose your own notions of whats best for them , having not known a single thing about them. If you really feel the urge to do otherwise do it on someone else thread and leave room for those that can actual lend so helpful insight. Also thanks to those that gave actual advice.

OP, I completely agree with you. Some of the things people say on this site in absurd. I hope you receive the advice you're looking for. As for me, I think you should go to GTown and become a hoya lawya and avoid the suicide/depression trap that is Cornell. But what do I know, I'm just a 0L

[cavalier1138]

I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live .

In order: There is not a magical three-year window in raising a family that is good for going to school. That's not how visas work. And if you have four years to live, then I hardly see why you'd care which school you went to.

I am at an absolute loss to understand your mentality. You have been told (by everyone, incidentally) that Cornell best fits your needs in your current circumstances. You clearly already know that a retake will have a massive impact on your potential to go to a better school, pay less money, etc. So your point-blank refusal to even consider a retake is just insane. I literally cannot imagine a life circumstance in which someone could go to law school in 4 months but couldn't in another year.

You came here for advice. You clearly knew what the advice would be, and I'm not sure why you're fighting it. Everyone telling you to retake and reapply is literally trying to help improve your chances, and you're dismissing them as condescending. Why ask for advice if you don't want anyone to tell you something you don't already know?

[mogwli]

Sorry I have to offer the opposite advice. If you only have four years then cost shouldn't matter at all, and law school might be fun because you don't really need to study since you will never really get to practice. You could just weave in and out of class and take vacations whenever you want.

I'm sorry, are you even in law school yet? The people at law school can be fun, but people can be fun anywhere. Law school itself is not fun at all. Only true weirdos find enjoyment over learning things where 90%+ of it will be useless in a practical sense. Must be a flame post.

[cron1834]

I've gotten such good advice from TLS but geez the people on here are so condescending and a tad bit psycho I might add. Someone is asking for advice based on the options they've presented to you. You have no idea who they are what their circumstances are whatsoever yet your willing to make blanket conclusive statements on what is their best possible option is. Even after they've told you they are not considering it! LOL i just don't understand the logic. And for the person who said in all caps bolded letters that there is absolutely nothing that can prevent you from waiting a year to go to law school, hats off to you for the most obnoxious comment in this thread. I could be raising a family, I could be forced to move back to a foreign country after exactly three years I could have a brain tumor that gives me 4 years to live . You literally have no idea! Give advice based on the question that OP posed! stop it with trying to impose your own notions of whats best for them , having not known a single thing about them. If you really feel the urge to do otherwise do it on someone else thread and leave room for those that can actual lend so helpful insight. Also thanks to those that gave actual advice.

OP, I completely agree with you. Some of the things people say on this site in absurd. I hope you receive the advice you're looking for. As for me, I think you should go to GTown and become a hoya lawya and avoid the suicide/depression trap that is Cornell. But what do I know, I'm just a 0L

The bolded is correct. And probably a 21-yo at that.

[barkschool]

the people on here are so condescending and a tad bit psycho

Look, you're the one who is okay not taking free money, and is not looking for advice.

You're asking for advice, not asking us to flip a coin and give you a side. Advice often means you won't agree with it, often because it offers alternative you (1) haven't thought about, (2) may not want to do, or (3) you feel like you already have an answer, and you just want someone to confirm it. If you want to be comforted, take any advice by someone who has mentioned they are a 0L, please.

I'm sorry that "retake" seems like bad advice because everyone mentions it, but they mention it for good reason. The time you spend in one year, could be worth so many hundreds of thousands of dollars to you both in scholarship and future career prospects.

Moving on;

You have no idea who they are what their circumstances are whatsoever yet your willing to make blanket conclusive statements on what is their best possible option is. Even after they've told you they are not considering it! LOL i just don't understand the logic.

These last two work together, but it's the bolded that is important here.

You don't understand, and we get it. You don't get it, and that's why you're looking for advice.

A retake is a FAR SUPERIOR option to the two you've listed, and it's hard for individuals (like myself and many other posters) who have attended, or are attending law school to not mention it. We have sat in your position, and either heeded TLS advice (or not), and the majority would say that waiting a year would not have been a big deal, if they could pay off less loans or had better job prospects.

I know that you may be "okay" with taking on debt, and that is your prerogative, but we're here to say that a third option exists which puts ACTUAL CASH in your hands. What we're saying is would you rather spend $1 now, or spend $0.50 in a year? The choices really are that black and white, no matter who you are or what your situation is.

stop it with trying to impose your own notions of whats best for them , having not known a single thing about them.

So this part is about "everyone has a different situation." Other posters have addressed it, there simply isn't a "gun to your head" to attend law school. Sure there is pressure, from friends, family, co-workers, loved ones, and most importantly self placed pressure to get into "professional school" or "start your career" or "move out" or even, "feel like you're doing something with your life." I have read 1000's of posts, and unless the numbers are right from the get go, there isn't a situation where you can't wait a year.

As it stands, your prospects could be better, and you probably should wait a year. Otherwise go to Cornell.

[pppp]

Ignoring the retake argument, I actually disagree with the consensus Cornell vote here. Gtown sounds like the smarter vote to me. You would enjoy the next three years more at a significantly cheaper price. You're definitely lowballing costs and Cornell with 25k a year should leave you closer to 200k. Georgetown is much more affordable, and I don't believe the difference in employment isn't without a decent amount of self selection. A lot of gtown graduates want govt and a lot want DC biglaw which seems very tough to get. I don't think the Cornell vs Gtown name will give you much help in the hiring process.

[cavalier1138]

Ignoring the retake argument, I actually disagree with the consensus Cornell vote here. Gtown sounds like the smarter vote to me. You would enjoy the next three years more at a significantly cheaper price. You're definitely lowballing costs and Cornell with 25k a year should leave you closer to 200k. Georgetown is much more affordable, and I don't believe the difference in employment isn't without a decent amount of self selection. A lot of gtown graduates want govt and a lot want DC biglaw which seems very tough to get. I don't think the Cornell vs Gtown name will give you much help in the hiring process.

If the difference in the employment is "self-selection", then a whole bunch of Georgetown grads must be selecting no job or jobs that they simply didn't want to do in the first place.

Yes, biglaw is hard to get. Yes, government work is hard to get. But students at pretty much all the other T14s have much better placement stats in both government and biglaw.

[curry1]

Ignoring the retake argument, I actually disagree with the consensus Cornell vote here. Gtown sounds like the smarter vote to me. You would enjoy the next three years more at a significantly cheaper price. You're definitely lowballing costs and Cornell with 25k a year should leave you closer to 200k. Georgetown is much more affordable, and I don't believe the difference in employment isn't without a decent amount of self selection. A lot of gtown graduates want govt and a lot want DC biglaw which seems very tough to get. I don't think the Cornell vs Gtown name will give you much help in the hiring process.

Making a life-changing decision based off of enjoying a city you'll live in for ~27 months is the smart vote? lol at the idea that the employment differences between GTT and Cornell are self-selection. Tell that to the hundreds of GULC students who are unemployed or underemployed after graduation.

[barkschool]

Tell that to the hundreds of GULC students who are unemployed or underemployed after graduation.

Big law is a hair under a coin flip, and the government numbers are lackluster.