Is Berkeley worth 65k more than NU/Duke? Forum

[urbanist11]

Interested in peoples' thoughts generally on this. Obviously individual circumstances can change the calculus a lot, but do people view Berkeley as a superior school, and if so how much more would you be willing to pay for it?

[rpupkin]

Interested in peoples' thoughts generally on this. Obviously individual circumstances can change the calculus a lot, but do people view Berkeley as a superior school, and if so how much more would you be willing to pay for it?

This is an odd question to pose in the abstract. But I'll answer: No.

[TLSDookie]

They aren't comparable schools. People who attend Berkeley by and large have different career goals from those who attend NU from those who attend Duke. That's like asking is it worth it to pay an extra 65k to do 9cir PI vs. NYC BL vs. Chi corporate/M&A. Could be, if you really love 9th cir PI.

Is it worth 65k if you're applying to the entire t-14 for a median BL firm, in any region, in any field of practice? Probably not.

[urbanist11]

Yeah I'm aware it's a bit odd... Indulge my craziness a little

[rpupkin]

They aren't comparable schools.

Eh, they're roughly comparable. If someone just wants big law and has no strong geographic preference, it doesn't make sense to pay more for one of these schools over the other.

[TLSDookie]

They aren't comparable schools.

Eh, they're roughly comparable. If someone just wants big law and has no strong geographic preference, it doesn't make sense to pay more for one of these schools over the other.

Agreed. Edited. If you're looking for the same outcome from the whole t-14, it's a safe assumption that outcome is BL, in which case not only is Berkeley not worth extra, it isn't even worth the same price. But that's such an simplistic view of the three schools, I can confidently remark on it as a 0L just from looking at general employment numbers.

[krads153]

Here's biglaw + fed clerk placement for last year:
Duke: 75%
NU: 69%
UC Berk: 56% (second to worst out of the T-14. Worst was GULC)

Here's unemployment/underemployment percentages:

Yale-8.45% (18)
Harvard-6.28% (37)
Stanford-5.13% (10)
Columbia-8.72% (36)
Chicago-7.14% (14)
NYU-8.45% (41)
Penn-5.69% (14)
UVA-10.90% (40)
Berkeley-10.79% (30)
Michigan-9.6% (34)
Duke-5.77% (12)
Northwestern-10.07% (29)

So just looking at these numbers, no it's not.

You probably already knew that though - so I don't know what you want us to tell you. If you don't have ties to California already, I doubt you will stay long since you probably can't afford living in Cali (just stating facts). Might as well take the money elsewhere.

[KiltedKicker]

Here's biglaw + fed clerk placement for last year:
Duke: 75%
NU: 69%
UC Berk: 56% (second to worst out of the T-14. Worst was GULC)

Here's unemployment/underemployment percentages:

Yale-8.45% (18)
Harvard-6.28% (37)
Stanford-5.13% (10)
Columbia-8.72% (36)
Chicago-7.14% (14)
NYU-8.45% (41)
Penn-5.69% (14)
UVA-10.90% (40)
Berkeley-10.79% (30)
Michigan-9.6% (34)
Duke-5.77% (12)
Northwestern-10.07% (29)

So just looking at these numbers, no it's not.

You probably already knew that though - so I don't know what you want us to tell you. If you don't have ties to California already, I doubt you will stay long since you probably can't afford living in Cali (just stating facts). Might as well take the money elsewhere.

The biglaw+fedclerkship numbers lack nuance, and in the case of Berkeley that makes them misleading. Percentage of students at OCI who get an offer is a better stat in my opinion. And if Columbia has a higher under/unemployment number than Duke, I think that's a good indication that those numbers aren't a great reflection of each school's placement power (no offense to Duke, great school but certainly not more highly regarded than Columbia).

That being said, I think it depends on your goals. If you want to work in PI or you want to work in the Bay Area I would take Berkeley for the network. It will be easier to get a Bay Area job from Berkeley than Duke or NU, in particular if you're not at the top of the class (much easier if you don't have strong ties to the area). If you're fine working in New York or Chicago - or you want to take the gamble that you'll be in the top 1/2 or 1/3 of the class – and are debt-averse then those other schools are better options.

Also, I found Duke and Berkeley to have very different atmospheres with different kinds of students (I liked both but preferred Berkeley). I don't think it's worth 65K, but it's worth something to be at a school that will make you happier over 3 years.

Best of luck making a decision!

[jbagelboy]

Duke and Berkeley are peers. They might both have a tinge more cache outside the private sector than Northwestern, but within the commercial/corporate world these are pretty much indistinguishable--in the abstract. If you want to practice in California, for example, it might be worth paying a little more for Cal, but not $60k.

[Nebby]

No, unless you: (1) want to work in California, or (2) want to do PI.

[Jchance]

No, unless you: (1) want to work in California, or (2) want to do PI.

I'd add (3) international work to this list.