UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley Forum

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Leila19

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UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by Leila19 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:17 am

Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by ponderingmeerkat » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:04 am

Leila19 wrote:Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)
What are your LSAT/GPA stats? Also, I want to know if you have ties to California? Did you go to high school/undergrad in California? Is your family from there? Or are you trying to use your JD to establish ties?

Absent that info, I'd recommend Duke. It is absolutely worth $18K more than UCLA. If you have pre-existing ties to California, it'll get you back home. Even though Duke doesn't place a lot of people in California, a lot of that is going to be self-selection. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think of a reason to go to UCLA if your ties are robust enough to California.

Now, all this goes at the window if you're from Pensatucky or Nebrahoma. In that case, you better go to UCLA or Berkeley. If those are your options, we are going to have disagreement on this board. I'm going to recommend Berkeley (because I see low-6 figures of debt as defensible for a T14 with biglaw as the stated goal). The debt-free, hyper conservatives are probably going to push your towards UCLA.

So, more info please?

Leila19

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by Leila19 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:16 pm

ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)
What are your LSAT/GPA stats? Also, I want to know if you have ties to California? Did you go to high school/undergrad in California? Is your family from there? Or are you trying to use your JD to establish ties?

Absent that info, I'd recommend Duke. It is absolutely worth $18K more than UCLA. If you have pre-existing ties to California, it'll get you back home. Even though Duke doesn't place a lot of people in California, a lot of that is going to be self-selection. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think of a reason to go to UCLA if your ties are robust enough to California.

Now, all this goes at the window if you're from Pensatucky or Nebrahoma. In that case, you better go to UCLA or Berkeley. If those are your options, we are going to have disagreement on this board. I'm going to recommend Berkeley (because I see low-6 figures of debt as defensible for a T14 with biglaw as the stated goal). The debt-free, hyper conservatives are probably going to push your towards UCLA.

So, more info please?
Pm-ed you my stats. Near 25th GPA/75th LSAT for anyone else wondering. I'm born and raised in CA and have worked here since undergrad. 100% sure I want to be a CA lawyer for personal reasons.

I'll add here that I'm very debt averse as I've been dealing with undergrad loans (and still am) and I've seen the effect they have on my mental state. But, at the same time, I'm willing to take on more debt if for the correct risk/reward ratio.

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by ponderingmeerkat » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:26 pm

Leila19 wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)
What are your LSAT/GPA stats? Also, I want to know if you have ties to California? Did you go to high school/undergrad in California? Is your family from there? Or are you trying to use your JD to establish ties?

Absent that info, I'd recommend Duke. It is absolutely worth $18K more than UCLA. If you have pre-existing ties to California, it'll get you back home. Even though Duke doesn't place a lot of people in California, a lot of that is going to be self-selection. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think of a reason to go to UCLA if your ties are robust enough to California.

Now, all this goes at the window if you're from Pensatucky or Nebrahoma. In that case, you better go to UCLA or Berkeley. If those are your options, we are going to have disagreement on this board. I'm going to recommend Berkeley (because I see low-6 figures of debt as defensible for a T14 with biglaw as the stated goal). The debt-free, hyper conservatives are probably going to push your towards UCLA.

So, more info please?
Pm-ed you my stats. Near 25th GPA/75th LSAT for anyone else wondering. I'm born and raised in CA and have worked here since undergrad.
Given your numbers and your strong ties to the region, I think Duke is the right play here. It gets you those T14 job prospects and margin of safety re: employment and is only marginally higher in COA than UCLA. Also, with your bulletproof ties to California, I can't see how paying $42K above Duke for Berkeley is defensible. That said, if Berkeley comes through with a match (or gets your close) then Berkeley. Good luck.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by existentialcrisis » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:27 pm

ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)
What are your LSAT/GPA stats? Also, I want to know if you have ties to California? Did you go to high school/undergrad in California? Is your family from there? Or are you trying to use your JD to establish ties?

Absent that info, I'd recommend Duke. It is absolutely worth $18K more than UCLA. If you have pre-existing ties to California, it'll get you back home. Even though Duke doesn't place a lot of people in California, a lot of that is going to be self-selection. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think of a reason to go to UCLA if your ties are robust enough to California.

Now, all this goes at the window if you're from Pensatucky or Nebrahoma. In that case, you better go to UCLA or Berkeley. If those are your options, we are going to have disagreement on this board. I'm going to recommend Berkeley (because I see low-6 figures of debt as defensible for a T14 with biglaw as the stated goal). The debt-free, hyper conservatives are probably going to push your towards UCLA.

So, more info please?
Pm-ed you my stats. Near 25th GPA/75th LSAT for anyone else wondering. I'm born and raised in CA and have worked here since undergrad.
Given your numbers and your strong ties to the region, I think Duke is the right play here. It gets you those T14 job prospects and margin of safety re: employment and is only a marginally higher in COA than UCLA. Also, with your bulletproof ties to California, I can't see how paying $42K above Duke for Berkeley is defensible. That said, if Berkeley comes through with a match (or gets your close) then Berkeley. Good luck.
Came in to say exactly this.

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Leila19

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by Leila19 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:07 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote:Longtime lurker finally made an account because I really need some advice! I am down the three choices...

Goal is California Biglaw (slight preference for SoCal). 3 years WE in corporate setting.

COA has accounted for school scholarships, savings, and outside scholarships. Cost is approximate for three years.

UCLA: $68,000
Duke: $86,000
Berkeley: $128,000 (haven't heard from matching)
What are your LSAT/GPA stats? Also, I want to know if you have ties to California? Did you go to high school/undergrad in California? Is your family from there? Or are you trying to use your JD to establish ties?

Absent that info, I'd recommend Duke. It is absolutely worth $18K more than UCLA. If you have pre-existing ties to California, it'll get you back home. Even though Duke doesn't place a lot of people in California, a lot of that is going to be self-selection. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think of a reason to go to UCLA if your ties are robust enough to California.

Now, all this goes at the window if you're from Pensatucky or Nebrahoma. In that case, you better go to UCLA or Berkeley. If those are your options, we are going to have disagreement on this board. I'm going to recommend Berkeley (because I see low-6 figures of debt as defensible for a T14 with biglaw as the stated goal). The debt-free, hyper conservatives are probably going to push your towards UCLA.

So, more info please?
Pm-ed you my stats. Near 25th GPA/75th LSAT for anyone else wondering. I'm born and raised in CA and have worked here since undergrad.
Given your numbers and your strong ties to the region, I think Duke is the right play here. It gets you those T14 job prospects and margin of safety re: employment and is only a marginally higher in COA than UCLA. Also, with your bulletproof ties to California, I can't see how paying $42K above Duke for Berkeley is defensible. That said, if Berkeley comes through with a match (or gets your close) then Berkeley. Good luck.
Came in to say exactly this.

Is there a price difference that would make UCLA worth it? I have a preference for staying in California so I'm trying to do the cost benefit analysis here.

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by ponderingmeerkat » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:32 pm

Leila19 wrote: Is there a price difference that would make UCLA worth it? I have a preference for staying in California so I'm trying to do the cost benefit analysis here.
Cool...let's take a look at this. So, since your goal is biglaw, that's what we'll use to evaluate your options. First, let's go to the truth data:

UCLA's report: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ucla/2014/

Duke's report: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/duke/2014/

This shows UCLA places 35.1% of their students in biglaw. Duke places 56.7%. Since your average biglaw associate lasts in big law for about 3 years and salaries for those three years at, say, Latham LA are 160K/170K/185K, you can value three years of biglaw placement at ~515K.

So, assuming you truly are "biglaw or bust", you should value Duke's 21.6% increase likelihood of placing you where you want to be at 0.216x515,000 which equals $111,240 in excess of UCLA's cost outlay.

Now, we could really get into the weeds from here. Maybe you say "well, the two options available to me aren't unemployment vs. biglaw...there are midlaw/public interest/ambulance escort law options out there". Yea, absolutely. If you want to tinker with your options, go into the salary tabs in the LST reports and geek out on the different probabilities of different outcomes. But...I doubt, even if you give every benefit of every doubt to UCLA will you be able to shrink that $111K number down to the $18K number you need to economically justify buying what UCLA is selling.

Honestly, if you're deadset on UCLA, you need to tell them about your Duke offer and get them to make it rain. (The worst they can do is say no right?) If they don't hook that shit up, you better start liking Carolina BBQ.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: UCLA vs Duke vs Berkeley

Post by existentialcrisis » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:21 pm

ponderingmeerkat wrote:
Leila19 wrote: Is there a price difference that would make UCLA worth it? I have a preference for staying in California so I'm trying to do the cost benefit analysis here.
Cool...let's take a look at this. So, since your goal is biglaw, that's what we'll use to evaluate your options. First, let's go to the truth data:

UCLA's report: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ucla/2014/

Duke's report: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/duke/2014/

This shows UCLA places 35.1% of their students in biglaw. Duke places 56.7%. Since your average biglaw associate lasts in big law for about 3 years and salaries for those three years at, say, Latham LA are 160K/170K/185K, you can value three years of biglaw placement at ~515K.

So, assuming you truly are "biglaw or bust", you should value Duke's 21.6% increase likelihood of placing you where you want to be at 0.216x515,000 which equals $111,240 in excess of UCLA's cost outlay.

Now, we could really get into the weeds from here. Maybe you say "well, the two options available to me aren't unemployment vs. biglaw...there are midlaw/public interest/ambulance escort law options out there". Yea, absolutely. If you want to tinker with your options, go into the salary tabs in the LST reports and geek out on the different probabilities of different outcomes. But...I doubt, even if you give every benefit of every doubt to UCLA will you be able to shrink that $111K number down to the $18K number you need to economically justify buying what UCLA is selling.

Honestly, if you're deadset on UCLA, you need to tell them about your Duke offer and get them to make it rain. (The worst they can do is say no right?) If they don't hook that shit up, you better start liking Carolina BBQ.
It's probably better us BL+FC, where Duke's is 75% and UCLA's is ~45%. But yea, the point still stands, UCLA gives you a solid shot at what you want, Duke gives you an excellent shot.

It's up to you to decide how much the added safety is worth. For me that would be worth a lot. At the very least if you're going to go to UCLA, you need to get them to throw you more money.

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