Just took an official visit to Akron Law Forum

[bmathers]

Let me preface this by saying that Akron was originally nowhere near the top of my list, and I know that USNWR ranked them as a "TTT" (the for-profit, pretty random ranking system), but I came away with a different view of what they and Dean Wilson are doing at Akron Law.

They are ranked #50 with ATL (the ranking system that takes into account bar passage rate, employment rate, COA, etc), and are in the process of a $21 million renovation of the law school building (the renderings look ok, probably on-par with similar facilities). The campus was decent, with a pretty amazing rec center (for active students looking to relieve some stress - including a free, 3-story rock climbing wall and lazy river). Night life was fun, with plenty of talent, if we're on the same page.

All of that and scholarship considered, I still had some major reservations about the school and area. Then, Dean Wilson (the dean of the law school) sent me a text and invited me to his office. We sat down and talked for 30-60 minutes (I lost track), one-on-one, and I was BLOWN away by this man. He has been the dean for two years now, and this school is absolutely on the rise (I think he said that their applications are up by 30%-ish this year?). He came across as a very relatable, humble, moral person who is really there for the students (how often does the dean give out his personal cell phone number? Pretty remarkable). He also did away with conditional scholarships and slashed tuition right when he came into office - so no scholarships from Akron have any stipulations anymore, other than being in good academic standing.

I am also probably wanting to practice in the Philly area (for that reason, Villanova is still my #1 right now), and this dean attended Temple Law in Philly and the school has some connections to that specific area (multiple management partners in the area are alums, along with one of the judges).

I know that Akron may have a bad rep around here, especially with the scholarship game that the former dean played, but I came away pretty impressed with the university and their trajectory.

[Tiddlywinks]

Yeah, everyone I know who has gone to law school went to Akron. Most people in the city and surrounding areas think it's a great school. I wouldn't expect the degree to travel much outside the city though, especially all the way to Philly. I'd definitely be content with obtaining a small law firm or local government work if I attended. They keep tuition to around 25k a year and I believe they plan on keeping it there, so it's defiantly not a for-profit mill. I love Akron and it's pretty decent place to live, just know the restrictions that it will place on you.

[Mack.Hambleton]

lmao his job is to shill his school what do you expect

50.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.

did he throw that stat out

[bmathers]

Yeah, everyone I know who has gone to law school went to Akron. Most people in the city and surrounding areas think it's a great school. I wouldn't expect the degree to travel much outside the city though, especially all the way to Philly. I'd definitely be content with obtaining a small law firm or local government work if I attended. They keep tuition to around 25k a year and I believe they plan on keeping it there, so it's defiantly not a for-profit mill. I love Akron and it's pretty decent place to live, just know the restrictions that it will place on you.

COL in the area seems so cheap (at least, compared to where I currently live in Rhode Island), especially rent prices. I also really enjoyed being in Big Ten territory again (I am a Penn State slum), and a state where they actually care about college football (again, the Patriots/NFL takes up all football talk in New England). I don't think that I want to permanently reside in Ohio after graduation. though.

[moonman157]

If you don't want to permanently reside in Ohio then don't go to Akron Law

[Clemenceau]

If you don't want to permanently reside in Ohio then don't go to Akron Law

[californiauser]

your primary concerns should be cost of attendance and employment opportunities (indicated by stats, not anecdotes), both of which you failed to mention

rankings don't matter, the dean doesn't matter, and I would argue the building doesn't really matter either

[psu2016]

your primary concerns should be cost of attendance and employment opportunities (indicated by stats, not anecdotes), both of which you failed to mention

rankings don't matter, the dean doesn't matter, and I would argue the building doesn't really matter either

Yup. Hls out of a tent > Akron in a new building. Sad but true reality of legal education in America.

[bmathers]

your primary concerns should be cost of attendance and employment opportunities (indicated by stats, not anecdotes), both of which you failed to mention

COA is very low... looking at $10k/yr guaranteed so far, potentially full-ride, depending on June LSAT results.

[bmathers]

your primary concerns should be cost of attendance and employment opportunities (indicated by stats, not anecdotes), both of which you failed to mention

rankings don't matter, the dean doesn't matter, and I would argue the building doesn't really matter either

Yup. Hls out of a tent > Akron in a new building. Sad but true reality of legal education in America.

Not to be harsh... but, according to your handle, it appears that you are still in school. Are you qualified to know, from experience, the ins-and-outs of the hiring process from the employers perspective??

Obviously, the quality of the building has nothing to do with the hiring process post-graduation. However, it can potentially enhance the experience while at law school, and can potentially attract better prospects for the law school in general.

[bmathers]

lmao his job is to shill his school what do you expect

50.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.

did he throw that stat out

Here is the preliminary 2015 ABA employment data: http://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/2015_Emp ... ummary.pdf

I may send him a text inquiring about that.... but, I feel an obvious scapegoat for him will be the "That was a year after I was hired" pitch - which does hold some truth to it, but also speaks for the current rep of the university. FWIW, the second largest employment state for graduates is PA... granted, the number working in PA is fairly anecdotal.

[psu2016]

your primary concerns should be cost of attendance and employment opportunities (indicated by stats, not anecdotes), both of which you failed to mention

rankings don't matter, the dean doesn't matter, and I would argue the building doesn't really matter either

Yup. Hls out of a tent > Akron in a new building. Sad but true reality of legal education in America.

Not to be harsh... but, according to your handle, it appears that you are still in school. Are you qualified to know, from experience, the ins-and-outs of the hiring process from the employers perspective??

Obviously, the quality of the building has nothing to do with the hiring process post-graduation. However, it can potentially enhance the experience while at law school, and can potentially attract better prospects for the law school in general.

LOL. You don't sound harsh, just adorably naive.

And since you asked, being a student for the last three years, watching classes of students of ahead of, my own class, and the class behind me struggling to find employment from a TTT qualifies me to make this comment.

[eagle2a]

bro, if you want to practice in ohio, retake the lsat till you get a score that will get you $$$ at OSU

[bmathers]

Does it make a difference if I mention that I can take over my father's firm in PA after graduation, if I want to? It's in small-town central PA, so it may not be my top choice... but, I also have a luxury in knowing that I will not be unemployed with thousands in debt.

2016 - hardly naive. I know that Penn State's employment rate last year was ABYSMAL (like, so bad that attending a widener law would have been a better decision for employment). I graduated PSU in 2010, so I have kept in-touch with them.

[KingMob]

Does it make a difference if I mention that I can take over my father's firm in PA after graduation, if I want to? It's in small-town central PA, so it may not be my top choice... but, I also have a luxury in knowing that I will not be unemployed with thousands in debt.

2016 - hardly naive. I know that Penn State's employment rate last year was ABYSMAL (like, so bad that attending a widener law would have been a better decision for employment). I graduated PSU in 2010, so I have kept in-touch with them.

LOL at you calling PSU's statistics abysmal compared to Akron. Yes, PSU does not have AMAZING employment statistics but Akron is not any better(Actually they are slightly worse).

Akron in 2015 has a 51.4% FTLT bar passage rate whereas Penn State Law has 53% and Penn State Dickinson has 59.6%.

None of these schools are amazing but they do alright in there respective regions and you are way off base thinking Akron is much better than PSU. They are both on the same level of school. Only difference is Akron is in Ohio and will place in Ohio and both PSU schools will place in Central PA.

Edit: Also Widener has the exact same employment rate as Akron coming in at 51.35% FTLT bar passage rate.

Sources:
https://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/2015_Em ... ummary.pdf
https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/career-ser ... -graduates
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/sites/defa ... duates.pdf
http://commonwealthlaw.widener.edu/curr ... nd-trends/

TLDR; in short, PSU will do the same as Akron would in getting you a job at your Dad's firm and PSU would do better in landing you other jobs in PA by a mile....

[kellyfrost]

What is an "unofficial" visit and how would it differ from the visit you just took?

[bmathers]

Does it make a difference if I mention that I can take over my father's firm in PA after graduation, if I want to? It's in small-town central PA, so it may not be my top choice... but, I also have a luxury in knowing that I will not be unemployed with thousands in debt.

2016 - hardly naive. I know that Penn State's employment rate last year was ABYSMAL (like, so bad that attending a widener law would have been a better decision for employment). I graduated PSU in 2010, so I have kept in-touch with them.

LOL at you calling PSU's statistics abysmal compared to Akron. Yes, PSU does not have AMAZING employment statistics but Akron is not any better(Actually they are slightly worse).

Akron in 2015 has a 51.4% FTLT bar passage rate whereas Penn State Law has 53% and Penn State Dickinson has 59.6%.

None of these schools are amazing but they do alright in there respective regions and you are way off base thinking Akron is much better than PSU. They are both on the same level of school. Only difference is Akron is in Ohio and will place in Ohio and both PSU schools will place in Central PA.

Edit: Also Widener has the exact same employment rate as Akron coming in at 51.35% FTLT bar passage rate.

Sources:
https://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/2015_Em ... ummary.pdf
https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/career-ser ... -graduates
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/sites/defa ... duates.pdf
http://commonwealthlaw.widener.edu/curr ... nd-trends/

TLDR; in short, PSU will do the same as Akron would in getting you a job at your Dad's firm and PSU would do better in landing you other jobs in PA by a mile....

Hey King,

I never compared Akron to PSU - try to find me any quote where I did.

Second - I never mentioned bar passage rates, only employment rates (and once again, I never compared Akron to PSU).

[bmathers]

What is an "unofficial" visit and how would it differ from the visit you just took?

Ehh, I just went with "official" bc they paid some of my traveling expenses and had my day set-up pretty well (and no, it was not an ASD/ASW).

[psu2016]

This thread just keeps getting better.

[bmathers]

Maybe the abysmal employment rate at PSU was two years ago. All I know is that my law adviser (back at PSU), told me that it was absolutely abysmal (30%-ish rings a bell), but they were working on improving that for this year.

[KingMob]

Does it make a difference if I mention that I can take over my father's firm in PA after graduation, if I want to? It's in small-town central PA, so it may not be my top choice... but, I also have a luxury in knowing that I will not be unemployed with thousands in debt.

2016 - hardly naive. I know that Penn State's employment rate last year was ABYSMAL (like, so bad that attending a widener law would have been a better decision for employment). I graduated PSU in 2010, so I have kept in-touch with them.

LOL at you calling PSU's statistics abysmal compared to Akron. Yes, PSU does not have AMAZING employment statistics but Akron is not any better(Actually they are slightly worse).

Akron in 2015 has a 51.4% FTLT bar passage rate whereas Penn State Law has 53% and Penn State Dickinson has 59.6%.

None of these schools are amazing but they do alright in there respective regions and you are way off base thinking Akron is much better than PSU. They are both on the same level of school. Only difference is Akron is in Ohio and will place in Ohio and both PSU schools will place in Central PA.

Edit: Also Widener has the exact same employment rate as Akron coming in at 51.35% FTLT bar passage rate.

Sources:
https://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/2015_Em ... ummary.pdf
https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/career-ser ... -graduates
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/sites/defa ... duates.pdf
http://commonwealthlaw.widener.edu/curr ... nd-trends/

TLDR; in short, PSU will do the same as Akron would in getting you a job at your Dad's firm and PSU would do better in landing you other jobs in PA by a mile....

Hey King,

I never compared Akron to PSU - try to find me any quote where I did.

Second - I never mentioned bar passage rates, only employment rates (and once again, I never compared Akron to PSU).

You mentioned their "abysmal employment rates" in the same thread you were talking about how great Akron is... So indirectly, yes you did compare them.

Also, I never talked about bar passage as well. Maybe I was not clear enough. The only employment stat you should be worried about is the amount of jobs people secure that are full-time, long-term, and require bar passage. Where Akron falls below PSU(Both Schools) and right there with Widener.

[KingMob]

Maybe the abysmal employment rate at PSU was two years ago. All I know is that my law adviser (back at PSU), told me that it was absolutely abysmal (30%-ish rings a bell), but they were working on improving that for this year.

2014 - 65.9%
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/career-pla ... -graduates
2013 - 47%
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/career-pla ... -graduates
2012 - 58.7%
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/career-pla ... -graduates

My bad.. they had one abnormal year

[bmathers]

Does it make a difference if I mention that I can take over my father's firm in PA after graduation, if I want to? It's in small-town central PA, so it may not be my top choice... but, I also have a luxury in knowing that I will not be unemployed with thousands in debt.

2016 - hardly naive. I know that Penn State's employment rate last year was ABYSMAL (like, so bad that attending a widener law would have been a better decision for employment). I graduated PSU in 2010, so I have kept in-touch with them.

LOL at you calling PSU's statistics abysmal compared to Akron. Yes, PSU does not have AMAZING employment statistics but Akron is not any better(Actually they are slightly worse).

Akron in 2015 has a 51.4% FTLT bar passage rate whereas Penn State Law has 53% and Penn State Dickinson has 59.6%.

None of these schools are amazing but they do alright in there respective regions and you are way off base thinking Akron is much better than PSU. They are both on the same level of school. Only difference is Akron is in Ohio and will place in Ohio and both PSU schools will place in Central PA.

Edit: Also Widener has the exact same employment rate as Akron coming in at 51.35% FTLT bar passage rate.

Sources:
https://www.uakron.edu/law/docs/2015_Em ... ummary.pdf
https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/career-ser ... -graduates
https://dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/sites/defa ... duates.pdf
http://commonwealthlaw.widener.edu/curr ... nd-trends/

TLDR; in short, PSU will do the same as Akron would in getting you a job at your Dad's firm and PSU would do better in landing you other jobs in PA by a mile....

Hey King,

I never compared Akron to PSU - try to find me any quote where I did.

Second - I never mentioned bar passage rates, only employment rates (and once again, I never compared Akron to PSU).

You mentioned their "abysmal employment rates" in the same thread you were talking about how great Akron is... So indirectly, yes you did compare them.

Also, I never talked about bar passage as well. Maybe I was not clear enough. The only employment stat you should be worried about is the amount of jobs people secure that are full-time, long-term, and require bar passage. Where Akron falls below PSU(Both Schools) and right there with Widener.

Ok, thanks for explaining. And, no, I did not compare Akron and PSU (at least, intentionally). I also never said that Akron is a "great" school - certainly still not my top choice - rather, just sharing my experience there that I knew would not sit well on this forum.

One again - I did NOT compare Akron and PSU. I'm third generation PSU and only know of Akron because they are a frequent cupcake OOC opponent for PSU in football. The LAST thing that I would do is compare Penn State to Akron.

[psu2016]

It's not that your opinion doesn't sit well. It's entirely valid to say things like, "this school has a really nice building" and "the dean gave me his cell number and I appreciated that." What doesn't sit well is prioritizing these things over the objective data as to the quality of school you're about to attend and acting as if these things actually matter in the grand scheme of things. I've gone into a doctor's office and thought to myself, "Wow, this office is so nicely decorated!" while still realizing that the office decor does not impact the quality of medical care I'm about to receive.

Your opinion isn't wrong unless it's the answer to "why do I want to go to Akron Law?"

[bmathers]

Your opinion isn't wrong unless it's the answer to "why do I want to go to Akron Law?"

Yes, I would not prioritize and consider any of this, unless if two schools I am looking at happened to be even and a toss-up decision (anything more are words being put in my mouth). I hope that I don't have to type that out, verbatim, every time I post or an argument will ensue. I mean, come on (and, actually - I did mention the geographic preference of Villanova).

However, what I will say is that I think it is a school on the rise. How much of a rise? Who knows - but, I think that you will see them rise in the future.