ASU v. UC Boulder v. SMU v. U of H v. Retake LSAT/Reapply next year? Forum

[apoplee]

Hi,

My stats are UGPA: 3.70, and LSAT (2nd time): 158

I have 1.5 yrs Work Experience and would like to go to law school as early as I can. I am from Texas and most of my ties are in Texas, but I am open to going anywhere. I would like to study and practice corporate law, hoping to work in BIG LAW, maybe do litigation but I see myself probably doing something more transactional, and I'd maybe like to open my own practice someday. I'm also interested in learning more about IP and environmental law.

I applied late in the cycle - late January/early February. I really do not want to take the LSAT again.

I have received the following offers w/ Scholarships:
ASU - $20k Scholarship
Colorado Boulder - $20k Scholarship
SMU - $45k Scholarship
U of H - $20k Scholarship

*WUSTL - Waitlisted
*Emory - Waitlisted

Cost of Attendance netting scholarship, including living expenses (assuming $20k/yr), and assuming residency status where/when applicable:
ASU - $137k
Colorado Boulder - $142k
SMU - $168k
U of H - $131k

I have saved $30k from working and I have an education fund of $30k that I could use, so with that considered, I'm still in the hole by about $70-$110k depending on where I go. I would need to take some aid either from the government, private financial institutions, or borrow from family.

Should I invest in the cost and education or retake the LSAT/re-apply next cycle?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and insight. Please let me know if you have any more questions!

[jeremydc]

I'd sit out and apply next cycle.

[cavalier1138]

hoping to work in BIG LAW

Then none of the schools you listed are going to match up with your aspirations.

You've taken the LSAT twice, so it's time for some introspection: why did you tank the test? If it was because of lack of preparation, then prepare harder. If your preparation didn't work, then prepare differently. If it was something about the test itself, then remember that all your future exams, including the bar, are going to be worse. And if that's the case, is law school something you really want to put yourself through?

If you want a shot at working in biglaw, that's not likely at any of the schools you've listed. A retake is your best option (and a higher score will also mean you end up with less debt). But make sure you're clear on why you want to go to law school and what the process of becoming a lawyer is going to be like.

[apoplee]

hoping to work in BIG LAW

Then none of the schools you listed are going to match up with your aspirations.

You've taken the LSAT twice, so it's time for some introspection: why did you tank the test? If it was because of lack of preparation, then prepare harder. If your preparation didn't work, then prepare differently. If it was something about the test itself, then remember that all your future exams, including the bar, are going to be worse. And if that's the case, is law school something you really want to put yourself through?

If a 158 is tanking the test, then what score is a good score? I was perfectly fine with my second LSAT score because I was consistently scoring between a 155 - 159 on 90% of my 18 practice tests, so the 158 just seemed to make sense. I thought that my relatively high UGPA of 3.7 would offset my lower than median LSAT for my target schools in the top 20-30. In practice tests, I was consistently stronger in Logic Games (usually scoring around 20 a section), but I fell short of my typical Logic Games score on my actual LSAT. Reading Comp/Logical Reasoning have always been more difficult for me than LG.

For prep in my first test attempt, I took Manhattan prep, which helped a little, but my study habits were half-ass at best. After a disappointing first score, I took a break for a year and then took out the study materials again with a more structured and disciplined approach. I spent 15-20 hours a week studying on top of my 40-45 hour a week job. I reviewed all my Manhattan materials, I read the Powerscore Bibles on Logic Games and Logical Reasoning, and I read and practiced exercises in the Blueprint manual on Logic Games. I also took 18 practice tests in my three months before test day (most taken from Manhattan's book and some from buying past LSAT's from LSAC) . What more could I have done? How could I improve my score a third time?

Also, did applying in late January/early February hurt me in the application process or did it not make much of a difference?

Thank you

[apoplee]

hoping to work in BIG LAW

If you want a shot at working in biglaw, that's not likely at any of the schools you've listed. A retake is your best option (and a higher score will also mean you end up with less debt). But make sure you're clear on why you want to go to law school and what the process of becoming a lawyer is going to be like.

From my research and my admit day visits, the top 10-20% of the class at the schools I'm considering (with exception to Colorado because I haven't visited it yet) have opportunities with BIG LAW. Also, it's not always about class rank, but about the network one makes as a law student with alumni. To have a reasonable shot at working in biglaw, for what schools should I be considering? Do I still have a reasonable shot at working for a mid-size firm at the schools I'm considering, even if I don't graduate at the top of my class?

[p1921]

hoping to work in BIG LAW

If you want a shot at working in biglaw, that's not likely at any of the schools you've listed. A retake is your best option (and a higher score will also mean you end up with less debt). But make sure you're clear on why you want to go to law school and what the process of becoming a lawyer is going to be like.

From my research and my admit day visits, the top 10-20% of the class at the schools I'm considering (with exception to Colorado because I haven't visited it yet) have opportunities with BIG LAW. Also, it's not always about class rank, but about the network one makes as a law student with alumni. To have a reasonable shot at working in biglaw, for what schools should I be considering? Do I still have a reasonable shot at working for a mid-size firm at the schools I'm considering, even if I don't graduate at the top of my class?

Networking won't get you big law; they won't consider you unless you're in the top 15-20% (varies by firm).

I can only speak for SMU, but you'll have a decent shot at a mid-size firm, assuming you do good work and are a pretty normal human being. You should not go to any of the schools you listed for the amounts listed, even if you use the $30k education fund you have. I have ~1/2 ride, and wish I understood coming in how much debt that still is to pay back when you add that up with interest and extra cost of living expenses. Please please please do not spend $130k to any of the schools listed (You could make the case not to spend that much on any law school, but that's a different argument). Figure out how to get your LSAT up and go to UH for almost free with your $60k help or UT with your Texas ties.

[hairbear7]

If you want to get a job that starts off at 190k then you need to work harder to get a higher LSAT score.

These schools won't get you to your goals, and they are too expensive anyway.

[cavalier1138]

hoping to work in BIG LAW

Then none of the schools you listed are going to match up with your aspirations.

You've taken the LSAT twice, so it's time for some introspection: why did you tank the test? If it was because of lack of preparation, then prepare harder. If your preparation didn't work, then prepare differently. If it was something about the test itself, then remember that all your future exams, including the bar, are going to be worse. And if that's the case, is law school something you really want to put yourself through?

If a 158 is tanking the test, then what score is a good score? I was perfectly fine with my second LSAT score because I was consistently scoring between a 155 - 159 on 90% of my 18 practice tests, so the 158 just seemed to make sense. I thought that my relatively high UGPA of 3.7 would offset my lower than median LSAT for my target schools in the top 20-30. In practice tests, I was consistently stronger in Logic Games (usually scoring around 20 a section), but I fell short of my typical Logic Games score on my actual LSAT. Reading Comp/Logical Reasoning have always been more difficult for me than LG.

For prep in my first test attempt, I took Manhattan prep, which helped a little, but my study habits were half-ass at best. After a disappointing first score, I took a break for a year and then took out the study materials again with a more structured and disciplined approach. I spent 15-20 hours a week studying on top of my 40-45 hour a week job. I reviewed all my Manhattan materials, I read the Powerscore Bibles on Logic Games and Logical Reasoning, and I read and practiced exercises in the Blueprint manual on Logic Games. I also took 18 practice tests in my three months before test day (most taken from Manhattan's book and some from buying past LSAT's from LSAC) . What more could I have done? How could I improve my score a third time?

Also, did applying in late January/early February hurt me in the application process or did it not make much of a difference?

Thank you

158 is tanking it for your ambitions. If you want a real shot at biglaw, then you need to be looking at the T20 (and really, T14). And if you want to get in there (and hopefully not pay full tuition), you have to score in the high 160s or 170s. The LSAT counts more than your GPA, and that will only become more true the longer you have been out of school.

Now, you're correct. The top 10%-or-so of some of these schools do get a shot at biglaw. You're then wagering your future career on being in the top 10%, knowing that you already aren't in the top 10% of their applicant field.

And I have to go back to this after reading your description of how you prepared: why do you want to go into the law? This isn't a rhetorical question. There are a lot of reasons to go to law school, but it seems like you have unrealistic expectations about your career prospects in your current situation. If you want to go into a mid-size firm in [insert state of school you go to], then any of these schools will work. But if you want to work in any of the fields you initially listed, you're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment and crushing debt.

So focus in on your desires and goals. Why do you want to be a lawyer? Are you willing to put yourself through 3+ years of tests that are much more demanding than the LSAT to become a lawyer? Is the legal field the only way you can do what you want to do?

Edit: And applying later in the process may have hurt you, but not as much as the LSAT score did. You seem to be seriously underrating how much that test counts, so I'd advise looking at the median GPA and LSAT stats for the schools you're applying to.