Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials) Forum

[RedPurpleBlue]

You used Northwestern's 2015 ABA Employment stats and not the 2016 stats.

The list should look like this:


Berkeley: 19.7% (65)
NYU: 16.3% (79)
Michigan: 12.8% (42)
Chicago: 12.1% (26)
Stanford: 12% (22)
Yale: 11.3% (23)
Harvard: 10.9% (65)
UVA: 10.3% (34)
NU: 9.6% (24)
Columbia: 8.9% (35)
Penn: 7.4% (19)
Cornell: 7.1% (13)
Duke: 6.7% (15)

NU moves from 13th place to 9th in PI/Gov't.

[Burneo]

I feel like that sounds like a silly question, but I'm wondering if those T14s that don't graduate as many who are going into PI work might actually really be actively wanting more who are 100% committed. My undergrad is social work with two years working with an immigration law firm, undergrad internships with PI orgs, so my resume does prove my continuing interest in PI. I'd ideally like to work for the ACLU/SPLC/policy research orgs/similar. GPA 3.9, LSAT 172, non-URM. Trying to figure out if I should bother with Yale-and-lower PI schools and focus on Berkeley/NYU and others who send more to PI, or whether my 100% commitment to PI might make me more attractive to Yale etc. than my stats/non-URM status would otherwise justify? Hoping there are folks who can give me some insight into whether being totally committed to PI would make me more attractive to T14s that don't seem to send as many to PI. Related question -- does not sending as many to PI mean maybe there aren't as many PI opportunities at those schools? Thanks for any insight anyone can offer.

[Nebby]

I feel like that sounds like a silly question, but I'm wondering if those T14s that don't graduate as many who are going into PI work might actually really be actively wanting more who are 100% committed. My undergrad is social work with two years working with an immigration law firm, undergrad internships with PI orgs, so my resume does prove my continuing interest in PI. I'd ideally like to work for the ACLU/SPLC/policy research orgs/similar. GPA 3.9, LSAT 172, non-URM. Trying to figure out if I should bother with Yale-and-lower PI schools and focus on Berkeley/NYU and others who send more to PI, or whether my 100% commitment to PI might make me more attractive to Yale etc. than my stats/non-URM status would otherwise justify? Hoping there are folks who can give me some insight into whether being totally committed to PI would make me more attractive to T14s that don't seem to send as many to PI. Related question -- does not sending as many to PI mean maybe there aren't as many PI opportunities at those schools? Thanks for any insight anyone can offer.

(1) I don't think it'll give you much of an advantage except at the margins.
(2) All T14s have plenty of PI opportunities. Some are better than others in nuanced ways. One thing that I advocate to aspiring PI law students is the value of experiential learning. Some schools (like CLS) allow you to earn up to 30 non-graded credits of experiential learning (externships, field work, clinics, etc.) (83 credits req to graduate) others offer much less.

[InterLaw]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

[Nebby]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

[InterLaw]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

[cavalier1138]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

Depends on the school. HYSCCN students can get fellowships with a number of competitive international NGOs. But yes, if you want to work for an organization like the UN, you need a degree from a top school, exceptional experience, and a lot of luck.

[Nebby]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

I don't know of anyone who obtained entry-level jobs at the UN, unless they had background in the UN or similar organizations prior to law school. I do know a lot of CLS students who obtained summer or semester-long internships at the UN. CLS has a partnership with the UN for externships.

Basically, if you want, it's possible to obtain UN internships, so long as you go to a T14 school.

[InterLaw]

Depends on the school. HYSCCN students can get fellowships with a number of competitive international NGOs. But yes, if you want to work for an organization like the UN, you need a degree from a top school, exceptional experience, and a lot of luck.

Perfectly aware of the "luck" part, but dreaming is free...

Basically, if you want, it's possible to obtain UN internships, so long as you go to a T14 school.

That's the plan... I have a good shot, but it's conditional to the money I can get...

[eck456]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

It's not a silly question because it's actually crazy complicated and unfun and crazy competitive...one thing to note is that under the UN system and promotion rules (and these extend to many other organizations who take their notice from the UN) a JD isn't actually considered a masters degree since the only country that doesn't offer law degrees in undergrad (that I know of) is the US. Since you need a masters to get promoted in the UN past entry level, this means if you're serious about working in the intl governance system you need to think about pursuing either a dual degree in something like MPP, MPA in a related focus, or enroll in an LLM program (something like NU's LLM in international human rights). Otherwise even if you get a JD-required or adjacent job at one of the big international orgs, you'll be prohibited from being able to move up in it on the normal schedule.

[InterLaw]

Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

It's not a silly question because it's actually crazy complicated and unfun and crazy competitive...one thing to note is that under the UN system and promotion rules (and these extend to many other organizations who take their notice from the UN) a JD isn't actually considered a masters degree since the only country that doesn't offer law degrees in undergrad (that I know of) is the US. Since you need a masters to get promoted in the UN past entry level, this means if you're serious about working in the intl governance system you need to think about pursuing either a dual degree in something like MPP, MPA in a related focus, or enroll in an LLM program (something like NU's LLM in international human rights). Otherwise even if you get a JD-required or adjacent job at one of the big international orgs, you'll be prohibited from being able to move up in it on the normal schedule.

I am absolutely interested in double degrees, finally I found someone who understands why! Unfortunately on this forum the general idea about double degrees is: "useless". I think it depends on what's your career path... UVA JD + JHU SAIS Master of Arts in IR is my target outcome right now!

[Marvel.DC.23457]

Which law school would you attend from the list below for Big-Law /
Lay prestige, other factors, etc., etc., etc. ? I appreciate responses. Thank you.

- University of Chicago

- Harvard

- University of Pennsylvania

- Stanford

- Columbia

- New York University

[cavalier1138]

Which law school would you attend from the list below for Big-Law /
Lay prestige, other factors, etc., etc., etc. ? I appreciate responses. Thank you.

- University of Chicago

- Harvard

- University of Pennsylvania

- Stanford

- Columbia

- New York University

This is the PI thread, and those are ridiculous/subjective factors.

[Marvel.DC.23457]

Thank you.

[Gorrest_Fump]

I've got a fairly long LRAP question here and would appreciate TLS's collective knowledge:

Is a full-ride at a non-HYS t13 preferable to a 150k debt at HYS for a person doing PI?

Context:
I notice that non HYS t-13 schools have IBR and PSLF-linked LRAP programs. HYS, on the other hand, do not. My concern here would be to enroll at a non-HYS t-13 with a full scholly, then participate in the LRAP program, only to have politicians in DC axe PSLF and IBR, by which time my debt would have ballooned thanks to negative amortization.

I think NYU protects students from negative amortization if they choose to go into non-PI work by making a one-time payment that would bring their debt to the levels at which they would have been for a student who had enrolled in a 10-year standard repayment plan.

Career Goals: Criminal Prosecution (AUSA or State dont really care)

[RedPurpleBlue]

I've got a fairly long LRAP question here and would appreciate TLS's collective knowledge:

Is a full-ride at a non-HYS t13 preferable to a 150k debt at HYS for a person doing PI?

Context:
I notice that non HYS t-13 schools have IBR and PSLF-linked LRAP programs. HYS, on the other hand, do not. My concern here would be to enroll at a non-HYS t-13 with a full scholly, then participate in the LRAP program, only to have politicians in DC axe PSLF and IBR, by which time my debt would have ballooned thanks to negative amortization.

I think NYU protects students from negative amortization if they choose to go into non-PI work by making a one-time payment that would bring their debt to the levels at which they would have been for a student who had enrolled in a 10-year standard repayment plan.

Career Goals: Criminal Prosecution (AUSA or State dont really care)

Just go to the best T13 you can on a full-ride and call it a day. Your goals are fairly modest, and you can achieve them from any of the T13.