Northwestern vs. Michigan for DC/Boston Forum

[urbanist11]

Thanks for the input

[ponderingmeerkat]

NU. Boston's a tough nut to crack without ties and DC is a tough one to crack period. Given the COA similarities, it really does come down to happiness for you and your SO over the next three years. Sounds like Chicago wins. Have fun!

[stretchedtoothin]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

[James.K.Polk]

The $15k scholarship difference doesn't make COAs equal (I think their estimated costs are ~30k different) but if you roll all of that into it being covered by SO/savings, I suppose it is a toss-up. FWIW, I have met several specific government (especially White House) Michigan grads, but that could just be a fluke/who I run into/etc etc.

[urbanist11]

Thanks guys for the reassurance. The poll is basically tied at this point, so could anyone who chose Michigan elaborate on his/her choice?

[Fiddlesticks]

Mich places better in DC, unsure about Boston. Don't let your SO become a source of regret. There are lots of jobs in AA, depending on what SO does.

Alternatively, live in Ypsi and SO will be 30 minutes to Detroit, 7 to AA, and 30 to Toledo. They will be able to figure it out.

[Desert Fox]

Chicago's legal market should have plenty of tax and real estate work too.

[L’Étranger]

These schools are essentially the same with respect to your goals.

Congrats on scholarships.

[cron1834]

According to the geographic data on LST, over the last 3 years Mich has at least twice the placement percentage in DC as NU. Neither is exactly a pipeline to Boston, though Mich has more alums there on the aggregate. These are basically peer schools with similar COAs here, so I'd break the tie with geography and go Mich.

Disclosure - I go to Mich, my old man went to NU. I think highly of both.

[existentialcrisis]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

[stretchedtoothin]

According to the geographic data on LST, over the last 3 years Mich has at least twice the placement percentage in DC as NU. Neither is exactly a pipeline to Boston, though Mich has more alums there on the aggregate. These are basically peer schools with similar COAs here, so I'd break the tie with geography and go Mich.

Disclosure - I go to Mich, my old man went to NU. I think highly of both.

Do you not think that this has anything to do with the fact that the "anywhere but NYC!" crowd at NU have a home market to fall back upon? Once again, I don't think Mich has the edge in DC placement, and surely not one large enough to justify choosing MIch when everything else points to NU for OP.

[Desert Fox]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

[krads153]

If you want government, Michigan may have a placement advantage (apparently government hiring is oftentimes based on networking/connections) and Michigan has more people in DC fed gov.

But I think for firm work it's probably pretty even.

[urbanist11]

Thank you everyone for your input. I think considering what most of you are saying, placing more weight on something I can predict - how much we will enjoy Chicago vs. Ann Arbor lifestyle and the job opportunities in each place - vs. something that is ambiguous and hard to predict (placement advantage), Northwestern is probably the better bet. The schools truly are peers.

I do appreciate everyone's input, and luckily I have a little time to think everything through and do a little more digger before I have to commit.

[star fox]

Mich places better in DC, unsure about Boston. Don't let your SO become a source of regret. There are lots of jobs in AA, depending on what SO does.

Alternatively, live in Ypsi and SO will be 30 minutes to Detroit, 7 to AA, and 30 to Toledo. They will be able to figure it out.

Don't let your law school choice become a source of personal life regret.

These are two completely peer schools. NU grads tend to stay in Chicago to a large degree (they already live there by the time they're going through OCI after all) and so other (especially non-NY) cities are going to have less NU grads working there. I don't think any placement differences in other cities is going to be significantly impactful. A Northwestern student and Michigan student with roughly identical grades are going to be looked at roughly identical all else being equal more than likely at the firms you'd be looking at.

It should really be something you decide with your SO assuming this is a long-term relationship (which it sounds like) imo. Ann Arbor is a college-centered town that is 30 minutes from a failed city and surrounded by other small cities. Chicago is the hub of the Midwest and one of the largest cities in the country with a Gross Metropolitan Product of $547 Billion. It's two very different situations and if they're coming with you to live somewhere for at least three years then you gotta to take them into consideration. 100 %.

[GFox345]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

*Sigh* Why is it that you think Michigan "just sucks at jobs more than NU as a whole?"

IMO, Michigan is an objectively better choice for a PI interested person.

[urbanist11]

It's two very different situations and if they're coming with you to live somewhere for at least three years then you gotta to take them into consideration. 100 %.

Definitely agree. I should clarify that we are engaged, so it's not like I'm talking about bringing a girlfriend of the last year along.

Also, I think it would enjoy living in Chicago much, much more from a lifestyle standpoint over 3 years. I'm definitely a big city person (and a lifelong Cubs fan to add). There are some things about AA that seem appealing, but would probably wear off fast. All this is to say the signs seem to be pointing... Northwestern (cue joke drum noise).

[star fox]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

*Sigh* Why is it that you think Michigan "just sucks at jobs more than NU as a whole?"

IMO, Michigan is an objectively better choice for a PI interested person.

This guy's not PI oriented.

[Desert Fox]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

*Sigh* Why is it that you think Michigan "just sucks at jobs more than NU as a whole?"

IMO, Michigan is an objectively better choice for a PI interested person.

Only an idiot would assume different in PI placement is due to one school being better at it and not differences in student bodies wanting PI.

[urbanist11]

Yeah def. not into PI at the time being. I'd characterize short term goals as private firm and long term goals as "we'll see" - possibly government role if I hate private practice, but I get the sense that government hiring doesn't not work the same way (in other words a Michigan degree wouldn't hold an advantage over NU) but feel free to correct.

[jnwa]

Delete

[krads153]

Yeah def. not into PI at the time being. I'd characterize short term goals as private firm and long term goals as "we'll see" - possibly government role if I hate private practice, but I get the sense that government hiring doesn't not work the same way (in other words a Michigan degree wouldn't hold an advantage over NU) but feel free to correct.

It seems like a lot of government hiring (outside of DOJ/SEC, etc.) is about connections/networking......so good to have larger alumni base who can get you a job. A school on its own doesn't really matter that much based on what I've heard. It's all about the alumni/networking/people who go into fed gov. It's damn near impossible these days to get fed gov it seems like without some kind of "in".

[cavalier1138]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

*Sigh* Why is it that you think Michigan "just sucks at jobs more than NU as a whole?"

IMO, Michigan is an objectively better choice for a PI interested person.

Only an idiot would assume different in PI placement is due to one school being better at it and not differences in student bodies wanting PI.

Except when a school consistently has a student body that wants to do PI and gets hired in that field, they develop a strong network for future hiring, a stronger LRAP and fellowship program to entice more students with similar interests, etc.

So yes, some schools are "better at PI" than others.

[star fox]

The answer is Northwestern. Michigan's # of grads in DC doesn't really show that it has a stronger placement power than NU. They're peer schools. Chicago > Ann Arbor at same cost, especially given your own familiarity with the city and SO situation. Easy.

This. I very seriously doubt that Michigan has any placement advantage in DC at all.

It very may well have an advantage because of the real lack of NU grads in DC. There is no alumni network to push for you. I think it's changing though. A had a beer with a NU grad at convington and he said they are actively trying to recruit more.

But there is no fucking way the advantage is twice as much. Plus unless you get top 20% at Mich or NU, DC is tough sell either way. Whatever slight benefit there might be is canceled out by Michigan just sucking at jobs more than NU as a whole.

*Sigh* Why is it that you think Michigan "just sucks at jobs more than NU as a whole?"

IMO, Michigan is an objectively better choice for a PI interested person.

Only an idiot would assume different in PI placement is due to one school being better at it and not differences in student bodies wanting PI.

Except when a school consistently has a student body that wants to do PI and gets hired in that field, they develop a strong network for future hiring, a stronger LRAP and fellowship program to entice more students with similar interests, etc.

So yes, some schools are "better at PI" than others.

We're getting off track here but NU's fellowship program is pretty good. $50,000 in funding to get experience for a year at some legit PI place you'd probably be Volunteering for Free alternatively because PI places have no money to pay newbies. I think they award 8 of them, not sure how competitive they are (how many people are applying for them).

[Desert Fox]

SIXIGAN PI POOOOOOOWERHAUS

How much of Michigans PI is due to the fact that a bunch of them can't get real jobs.