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BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:36 pm

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splitterfromhell · Post by **splitterfromhell** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:47 pm

I'm not advocating for reapplying here, but Spivey has said that he predicts the top LSAT bandwidths to be down next cycle.

Edit: Did Texas actually give you a $1,000 per year scholarship? Never seen one that small from anywhere.

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:54 pm

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splitterfromhell · Post by **splitterfromhell** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:55 pm

BirdLawExpert wrote:
splitterfromhell wrote:I'm not advocating for reapplying here, but Spivey has said that he predicts the top LSAT bandwidths to be down next cycle.

Edit: Did Texas actually give you a $1,000 per year scholarship? Never seen one that small from anywhere.
UT did that for me and several others, as well as offering many people $0; they're hardcore low-balling people this year. Where did Spivey say the thing about top LSATs?

In his free advice thread. It was by no means a guarantee, but his guess is likely better than anyone's.

SirArthurDayne · Post by **SirArthurDayne** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:02 pm

I think you should cross GULC at sticker off your list.

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:13 pm

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TheRealSantaClaus · Post by **TheRealSantaClaus** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:20 pm

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:30 pm

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ponderingmeerkat · Post by **ponderingmeerkat** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:51 pm

Dude, if you put a gun to my head and made me pick, I'd probably say Vandy. But that'd be with a lot of hesitation. Tough spot to be in, but if your ties are as robust as you suggest, Vandy can probably give you a solid shot at the lowest cost (not low by any means, especially for a 174 LSAT...ouch). Have you given consideration to reapplying on 1 Sept with the same numbers for the next cycle? What about having Anne Richard take a look at your PS and resume (my understanding is she has an hourly fee structure)?? Maybe she'd ID something that's been overlooked.

arklaw13 · Post by **arklaw13** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:02 pm

Vandy 3L here. Had no idea we had anyone who specialized in national security law. I guess Newton maybe.

I usually wouldn't recommend Vandy at much over 100k debt, but you don't really have any better options other than not going to law school. I don't really have any good advice one way or another. If you're open to biglaw wherever you can get a job, Vandy is probably the best bet out what you have. But that's a lot of debt.

Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions.

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:16 pm

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BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:03 pm

I think you might be overestimating your ability to get a job in all those cities, along with how much these professors are going to help you get a clerkship or a job. That's not something you can assess as a 0L. All it takes is binking one B+ in the class they teach (easily done given how random law school grades can be) and then "Poof" that letter of recommendation that you were banking on is gone. Or maybe they don't like you, or maybe you don't like them. It happens. Basically I'm just saying that I wouldn't go to UT just because Chesney is there.

I'm also not sure what current UT law students can really do to help you have success there, other than give you outlines/general advice on profs they have taken, which is something that basically anyone can easily get.

I'm not saying that to be a downer, I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect any real "edge" when it comes to law school success or post-grad hiring. Assume you're just a rando like everyone else and then go from there. If the debt/job outcomes are acceptable for you then go for it.

I agree with arklaw, UT and Vandy are basically identical so I would follow the money. I wouldn't do either at those prices though, and like him my (somewhat arbitrary) line for "worth it" is around 100K. But it's your life, and you only get to live it once, so you might just have to YOLO this one if you really want to go to law school.

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:14 pm

BigZuck wrote:I think you might be overestimating your ability to get a job in all those cities, along with how much these professors are going to help you get a clerkship or a job. That's not something you can assess as a 0L. All it takes is binking one B+ in the class they teach (easily done given how random law school grades can be) and then "Poof" that letter of recommendation that you were banking on is gone. Or maybe they don't like you, or maybe you don't like them. It happens. Basically I'm just saying that I wouldn't go to UT just because Chesney is there.

I'm also not sure what current UT law students can really do to help you have success there, other than give you outlines/general advice on profs they have taken, which is something that basically anyone can easily get.

I'm not saying that to be a downer, I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect any real "edge" when it comes to law school success or post-grad hiring. Assume you're just a rando like everyone else and then go from there. If the debt/job outcomes are acceptable for you then go for it.

I agree with arklaw, UT and Vandy are basically identical so I would follow the money. I wouldn't do either at those prices though, and like him my (somewhat arbitrary) line for "worth it" is around 100K. But it's your life, and you only get to live it once, so you might just have to YOLO this one if you really want to go to law school.

But Chesney is great!

And yeah, I wasn't listing faculty/students as a means of getting a leg up, just more of the fact that I'd be plugging into a familiar system rather than an unfamiliar one. I fully expect that, at the end of the day, I'm going to have to perform at a consistently very high level during school if I want to end up with the jobs that I'm interested in. The cities I listed are places where I have either (a) immediate family members/family friends who would go to bat for me, (b) close friends working at companies who have expressed interest in hiring me previously, or (c) companies where I have standing job offers once I get through school and pass the bar. I'm not sure how interested I'll be in going in-house right out of school, but I'm lucky enough to have done some good work on the board of a national non-profit during college, so I've got a lot of friends in a lot of places who are trying to get me to come work for their companies. I'd take one of these jobs right now, but most of them are with startups and I'd rather not get into the startup game until I have a few more years of professional experience and a degree that doesn't start with "BA".

I appreciate the candor. My arbitrary line for "worth it" at the schools I'm considering is probably between 100-125k, so if I can get more scholarship from either school I'll be a little more comfortable with my choice.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:29 pm

BirdLawExpert wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I think you might be overestimating your ability to get a job in all those cities, along with how much these professors are going to help you get a clerkship or a job. That's not something you can assess as a 0L. All it takes is binking one B+ in the class they teach (easily done given how random law school grades can be) and then "Poof" that letter of recommendation that you were banking on is gone. Or maybe they don't like you, or maybe you don't like them. It happens. Basically I'm just saying that I wouldn't go to UT just because Chesney is there.

I'm also not sure what current UT law students can really do to help you have success there, other than give you outlines/general advice on profs they have taken, which is something that basically anyone can easily get.

I'm not saying that to be a downer, I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect any real "edge" when it comes to law school success or post-grad hiring. Assume you're just a rando like everyone else and then go from there. If the debt/job outcomes are acceptable for you then go for it.

I agree with arklaw, UT and Vandy are basically identical so I would follow the money. I wouldn't do either at those prices though, and like him my (somewhat arbitrary) line for "worth it" is around 100K. But it's your life, and you only get to live it once, so you might just have to YOLO this one if you really want to go to law school.
But Chesney is great!

And yeah, I wasn't listing faculty/students as a means of getting a leg up, just more of the fact that I'd be plugging into a familiar system rather than an unfamiliar one. I fully expect that, at the end of the day, I'm going to have to perform at a consistently very high level during school if I want to end up with the jobs that I'm interested in. The cities I listed are places where I have either (a) immediate family members/family friends who would go to bat for me, (b) close friends working at companies who have expressed interest in hiring me previously, or (c) companies where I have standing job offers once I get through school and pass the bar. I'm not sure how interested I'll be in going in-house right out of school, but I'm lucky enough to have done some good work on the board of a national non-profit during college, so I've got a lot of friends in a lot of places who are trying to get me to come work for their companies. I'd take one of these jobs right now, but most of them are with startups and I'd rather not get into the startup game until I have a few more years of professional experience and a degree that doesn't start with "BA".

I appreciate the candor. My arbitrary line for "worth it" at the schools I'm considering is probably between 100-125k, so if I can get more scholarship from either school I'll be a little more comfortable with my choice.

I've heard good things about Chesney. And he's undeniably dreamy, gotta give him that.

You seem like you've given this a lot of thought, have some real connections, and basically have your stuff together more than most 0Ls. So like I said, YOLO. Just remember that debt is real and it's going to suck to pay off even if you get something high paying. I'm in significantly more debt than I planned on being in (didn't quite appreciate loan origination fees, interest, summer cost of living, etc.) and I'm really not looking forward to paying $1000+ every month for the foreseeable future. That's why I say try to keep it around 100K, but of course that's tough and might not be possible with a lower GPA.

BirdLawExpert · Post by **BirdLawExpert** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:24 pm

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mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:40 pm

I notice those offers are all initial ones, you probably ought to talk to GULC and WashU first, bring their (hopefully) improved offers to Vandy, then everything to Texas. I know after you submit UT's reconsideration form you only have 5 days to accept their offer and then it becomes binding.

Here's something else to consider: reading through the Texas Law Class of 2018 thread it seems like many instate people at Texas received some type of need-based aid in the form of a grant for only instate applicants during mid to late April. I suspect you would get more base aid from Texas after you submit the form plus you may qualify for one of these grants.