UVA vs. Michigan ($) Forum

blind squirrel · Post by **blind squirrel** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:10 am

**PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS**

I am between UVA and Michigan at this point. I visited and really loved both of them. I suppose I liked UVA a little bit more, but they are close enough that I know I would be very happy at either.

I also looked at Duke, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern, but eventually ruled them all out for various reasons.

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.

Michigan - Could cover full COA--would leave debt free

UVA - ~85-90k

-How you will be financing your COA?

I have a scholarship from Michigan. The rest of it would come from savings and family support. My savings would be totally tapped, but I would leave debt free.

No scholarship from UVA. I asked them if they would consider the Michigan (and other) scholarships but they said my GPA was below their 25%, so they could not help. I could use my savings and some family help at UVA also, but I would be financing the final ~85-90k through loans.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
170/3.51 (two takes). Seeing as the problem with getting a scholarship at UVA stemmed from my GPA, and that I doubt I can squeeze any more points out of the LSAT, I do not think retaking is the right option for me (although I bet I will still get the classic "retake" comment at least once).

So the sticky part of this whole situation is that I know I want to return to VA/DC. I went to college in VA and have ties there. I also have ties to DC, PA, and OH. No significant ties to Michigan. After school I want to clerk before becoming a state or federal prosecutor.

I guess the main question I have is if going to UVA provides such a better opportunity of clerking and staying in the state/DC area that it is worth taking on 90k worth of loans. I know that UVA has a solid LRAP program, but I am a pretty debt-adverse person. My thinking is that a lot can change over 10 years, and I would rather not be burdened with debt. I also have 0 interest in big law and will not go that route.

I am a very outgoing person and do not have any problem emailing or calling people to network. I know that does not make up for being able to meet someone in person, but I am hoping Michigan's national reputation and some hustling on my part will make Michigan worth it given the money.

What do you all think?

ponderingmeerkat · Post by **ponderingmeerkat** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:24 am

I'm going to suggest you take Michigan in this instance and don't look back. UVA is not worth $90K more. They are both national schools and provide you a national network. With ties, you should be have a solid chance of landing back in VA with a Michigan degree. Good luck!

fliptrip · Post by **fliptrip** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:27 am

Get thee to Michigan and don't look back.

GFox345 · Post by **GFox345** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:31 am

According to the most recent employment numbers that came out just last week, Michigan sends a larger portion of its class into PI and Government jobs than any of its peer schools. For instance, Duke boasts a BL/FC rate that is 15% higher than Michigan's, but, when considering all angles, 20% of Michigan's class goes into PI or Government positions while only 5% of Duke's does. It seems telling to me that this accounts for the 15% discrepancy in the BL/FC rate. And lends credibility to the idea that Michigan's so-called underperformance is at least somewhat due to self-selection into PI and Government careers. The numbers work out similarly with UVA. That being said, I am not sure how UVA's reputation vs. Michigan's will play out given that your final goal is to end up in DC, but I have heard that DC is a VERY competitive market, and while you may land a PI job there, it is not something that happens for everyone.

My perspective is given that you have zero interest in BigLaw and seem to want to avoid it at all costs, there is simply no way to justify investing 90k more to go to one peer school over the other. Even if you believe UVA is somewhat better, 90k is a huge investment and should only be made if you are confident that it is done to bring about a very tangible difference in outcome. I just don't believe that you can have such confidence. Essentially, that 90k debt will equate to a monthly payment of about $1,000 if you intend to pay it off in 10 years, although LRAP may come into play here. But why deal with that?

Personally, I think Michigan is the clear choice here. Go to law school at one of the best schools in the country, graduate without a penny of debt, and never look back.

Hope to see you in Ann Arbor this fall!

blind squirrel · Post by **blind squirrel** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:04 pm

GFox345 wrote:According to the most recent employment numbers that came out just last week, Michigan sends a larger portion of its class into PI and Government jobs than any of its peer schools. For instance, Duke boasts a BL/FC rate that is 15% higher than Michigan's, but, when considering all angles, 20% of Michigan's class goes into PI or Government positions while only 5% of Duke's does. It seems telling to me that this accounts for the 15% discrepancy in the BL/FC rate. And lends credibility to the idea that Michigan's so-called underperformance is at least somewhat due to self-selection into PI and Government careers. The numbers work out similarly with UVA. That being said, I am not sure how UVA's reputation vs. Michigan's will play out given that your final goal is to end up in DC, but I have heard that DC is a VERY competitive market, and while you may land a PI job there, it is not something that happens for everyone.

My perspective is given that you have zero interest in BigLaw and seem to want to avoid it at all costs, there is simply no way to justify investing 90k more to go to one peer school over the other. Even if you believe UVA is somewhat better, 90k is a huge investment and should only be made if you are confident that it is done to bring about a very tangible difference in outcome. I just don't believe that you can have such confidence. Essentially, that 90k debt will equate to a monthly payment of about $1,000 if you intend to pay it off in 10 years, although LRAP may come into play here. But why deal with that?

Personally, I think Michigan is the clear choice here. Go to law school at one of the best schools in the country, graduate without a penny of debt, and never look back.

Hope to see you in Ann Arbor this fall!

Thank you so much for the responses guys, I appreciate it! I was thinking the same way as you all, but will probably give it a few more days of thought. If anyone else has thoughts I would appreciate hearing them. GFox, I will let you know if I become a wolverine!

Leonardo DiCaprio · Post by **Leonardo DiCaprio** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:08 pm

see my post history for what i think of michigan lol. but even i have to say that michigan is the right choice here over UVA. debt free degree from michigan is a great outcome. enjoy ann arbor.

blind squirrel · Post by **blind squirrel** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:41 pm

Leonardo DiCaprio wrote:see my post history for what i think of michigan lol. but even i have to say that michigan is the right choice here over UVA. debt free degree from michigan is a great outcome. enjoy ann arbor.

haha well even the haters agree, thanks for adding your two cents

getemgoon · Post by **getemgoon** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:51 am

blind squirrel wrote:
Leonardo DiCaprio wrote:see my post history for what i think of michigan lol. but even i have to say that michigan is the right choice here over UVA. debt free degree from michigan is a great outcome. enjoy ann arbor.

haha well even the haters agree, thanks for adding your two cents

First, Congratulations OP!

Definitely Michigan. Put up with the cold for 3 years for zero debt.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:07 am

Michigan. Debt-free T14 degree is awesome.

blind squirrel · Post by **blind squirrel** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:05 am

getemgoon wrote:
blind squirrel wrote:
Leonardo DiCaprio wrote:see my post history for what i think of michigan lol. but even i have to say that michigan is the right choice here over UVA. debt free degree from michigan is a great outcome. enjoy ann arbor.

haha well even the haters agree, thanks for adding your two cents
First, Congratulations OP!

Definitely Michigan. Put up with the cold for 3 years for zero debt.

Thank you! I feel very fortunate. And thank you for the advice. It looks like I will be asking my family for a winter coat for my birthday

blind squirrel · Post by **blind squirrel** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:06 am

Rigo wrote:Michigan. Debt-free T14 degree is awesome.

Thank you! I think you're right, no reason to look a gift horse in the mouth.

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