NYU($) vs Columbia vs Duke($$) vs Texas($$) vs Reapply Forum

[nate3869]

Deposit deadlines for some of these schools are coming up, so I just thought I'd get this thread started. I appreciate you all taking the time to give this post a look.

So my current options in schools are as follows:
(all of the following COA were calculated using Georgetown Calculator)

NYU - $62,500 scholarship for COA of ~$242,000
Duke - $81,000 scholarship for COA of ~$202,000
Texas - $39,000 scholarship w/in-state tuition for COA of ~$160,000
Columbia - No financial aid information yet, but probably in the range of NYU

K-JD. No family money or anything so it would be all loans. Not a strong preference on markets, maybe Chicago or DC, but no ties to either. Ideally, I would prefer to go into academia, but as it is such a difficult market to crack it seems more likely that I'd do biglaw for a couple years at least to start; also, I want to do a clerkship (I've heard the advice that you can't count on getting a clerkship, so this is just my ideal career goals).:

GPA - 3.52
LSAT - 175, 2 takes

Finally, I wouldn't entirely be opposed to taking a year off to work and reapplying early next cycle, as I'm not sure my numbers lived up to their potential. In the current cycle I applied end of November/early December and I got waitlisted at Harvard, Chicago, UPenn, Georgetown, Michigan and Virginia and denied at Cornell. Additionally, as I'm still in school my GPA has the potential to raise to 3.6, although most likely is in the 3.58ish range.

So what do you guys think? Honestly my biggest question here is whether reapplying next cycle would offer me a chance to get better scholarships at any lower T-14s...otherwise, I'm leaning towards NYU/Columbia based on career goals.

[Hikikomorist]

Texas is lowballing you, and your COA estimate seems really high for Duke. Did you apply to Northwestern? Your numbers place you on the lower end of their ED scholarship range, I think.

[nate3869]

In regards to Texas, my current offer is actually their second offer. Their original scholarship was $7,000 per year with in-state tuition. However, as I asked it be reconsidered, per their policy they won't change my financial aid offer again.

As for Northwestern, I didn't actually find out about their ED program until after I had already applied, so I didn't end up applying there.

[Hikikomorist]

In regards to Texas, my current offer is actually their second offer. Their original scholarship was $7,000 per year with in-state tuition. However, as I asked it be reconsidered, per their policy they won't change my financial aid offer again.

As for Northwestern, I didn't actually find out about their ED program until after I had already applied, so I didn't end up applying there.

They lie to students with that one-time negotiation line. Keep politely pushing on them if you really want to attend, but I don't see it ending up as your best option.

[ih8makingscreennames]

You applied super early. That leads me to believe it's something else about your application (weak PS, weak LOR, or generally no life experience). I don't think reapplying helps unless you are gonna use the year to go do something cool WE-wise. I could be wrong though.

[nate3869]

Bumping due to new information.

I received a scholarship of $90,000 from Columbia and have subsequently withdrawn from Texas. I'm now realistically only considering Columbia or Duke, and am much less inclined to reapply next cycle.

While I will attempt to use Columbia to negotiate a higher amount at Duke, is Columbia now the clear better choice here?

[juliuscasear90]

2014 Columbia - Big Law + Fed Clerkship 78%
(79.4% if you include State Supreme Court Clerkships)
2015 Duke - Big Law + Fed. Clerkship 76.44%
(80.7% if you include State Supreme Clerkships)

[Glacial]

Class of 2014: ABA reported employment stats based on class size (not the number of employed grads):

Biglaw (500+):
1. Columbia 62.17%
2. Penn 56.83%
3. Chicago 54.76%
4. NYU 54.48%
5. Cornell 51.83%
6. NW 46.73%
7. Harvard 45.56%
8. Duke 43.72%
9. UVA 40.40%
10. Berkeley 39.02%
11. Stanford 35.82%
12. Michigan 34.35%
13. GT 33.70%
14. Yale 29.13%

Clerkship (Federal & State):
1. Stanford 32.08%
2. Yale 28.26%
3. UVA 19.19%
4. Harvard 18.43%
5. Michigan 17.94%
6. Chicago 16.66%
7. Berkeley 16.37%
8. Duke 16.27%
9. Cornell 14.13%
10. NW 12.02%
11. Penn 11.87%
12. NYU 08.97%
13. GT 08.46%
14. Columbia 05.34%

Biglaw + Clerkship 2014:
1. Chicago 71.42%
2. Penn 68.70%
3. Stanford 67.90%
4. Columbia 67.51%
5. Cornell 65.96%
6. Harvard 63.99%
7. NYU 63.45%
8. Duke 59.99%
9. UVA 59.59%
10. NW 58.75%
11. Yale 57.39%
12. Berkeley 55.39%
13. Michigan 52.29%
14. GT 42.16%

[existentialcrisis]

Class of 2014: ABA reported employment stats based on class size (not the number of employed grads):

Biglaw (500+):
1. Columbia 62.17%
2. Penn 56.83%
3. Chicago 54.76%
4. NYU 54.48%
5. Cornell 51.83%
6. NW 46.73%
7. Harvard 45.56%
8. Duke 43.72%
9. UVA 40.40%
10. Berkeley 39.02%
11. Stanford 35.82%
12. Michigan 34.35%
13. GT 33.70%
14. Yale 29.13%

Clerkship (Federal & State):
1. Stanford 32.08%
2. Yale 28.26%
3. UVA 19.19%
4. Harvard 18.43%
5. Michigan 17.94%
6. Chicago 16.66%
7. Berkeley 16.37%
8. Duke 16.27%
9. Cornell 14.13%
10. NW 12.02%
11. Penn 11.87%
12. NYU 08.97%
13. GT 08.46%
14. Columbia 05.34%

Biglaw + Clerkship 2014:
1. Chicago 71.42%
2. Penn 68.70%
3. Stanford 67.90%
4. Columbia 67.51%
5. Cornell 65.96%
6. Harvard 63.99%
7. NYU 63.45%
8. Duke 59.99%
9. UVA 59.59%
10. NW 58.75%
11. Yale 57.39%
12. Berkeley 55.39%
13. Michigan 52.29%
14. GT 42.16%

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

None - pay should be same/similar. Guy is probably just trolling for Columbia.

Anyway, I think these costs are too high, so I'm leaning towards reapplying.

[existentialcrisis]

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

None - pay should be same/similar. Guy is probably just trolling for Columbia.

Anyway, I think these costs are too high, so I'm leaning towards reapplying.

Agreed with the reapplying earlier.

You'd think CLS bros would have hardons for WLRK and CSM though, both of which are under 500. W&C too.

[nate3869]

As far as I can tell (from mylsn scholarship graph), my numbers have outperformed for scholarships at Columbia and Duke. What is the current reasoning for reapplying? Scholarships at other lower t-14s?

[existentialcrisis]

As far as I can tell (from mylsn scholarship graph), my numbers have outperformed for scholarships at Columbia and Duke. What is the current reasoning for reapplying? Scholarships at other lower t-14s?

You said you want Chicago or DC. You need to do well at any of these places to get DC, I don't think any of them would give you a meaningful chance at Chicago without ties. Of the current schools I'd go Duke, because I don't think Columbia or NYU give you any edge in accomplishing your goals. Honestly, NY big law is your most likely outcome from any of these schools.

Also 200k is a lot of debt, and I'm not super knowledgeable about scholarships, but I'd think that a year of work experience, along with applying earlier might help you get more money.

And in terms of the lower T14, if you want Chicago, NU is a great option, as it would give you a great shot at Chi and NY, and open up the chance DC if you do well there.

[Glacial]

Class of 2014: ABA reported employment stats based on class size (not the number of employed grads):

Biglaw (500+):
1. Columbia 62.17%
2. Penn 56.83%
3. Chicago 54.76%
4. NYU 54.48%
5. Cornell 51.83%
6. NW 46.73%
7. Harvard 45.56%
8. Duke 43.72%
9. UVA 40.40%
10. Berkeley 39.02%
11. Stanford 35.82%
12. Michigan 34.35%
13. GT 33.70%
14. Yale 29.13%

Clerkship (Federal & State):
1. Stanford 32.08%
2. Yale 28.26%
3. UVA 19.19%
4. Harvard 18.43%
5. Michigan 17.94%
6. Chicago 16.66%
7. Berkeley 16.37%
8. Duke 16.27%
9. Cornell 14.13%
10. NW 12.02%
11. Penn 11.87%
12. NYU 08.97%
13. GT 08.46%
14. Columbia 05.34%

Biglaw + Clerkship 2014:
1. Chicago 71.42%
2. Penn 68.70%
3. Stanford 67.90%
4. Columbia 67.51%
5. Cornell 65.96%
6. Harvard 63.99%
7. NYU 63.45%
8. Duke 59.99%
9. UVA 59.59%
10. NW 58.75%
11. Yale 57.39%
12. Berkeley 55.39%
13. Michigan 52.29%
14. GT 42.16%

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

Depends how you define "Biglaw".

[existentialcrisis]

Class of 2014: ABA reported employment stats based on class size (not the number of employed grads):

Biglaw (500+):
1. Columbia 62.17%
2. Penn 56.83%
3. Chicago 54.76%
4. NYU 54.48%
5. Cornell 51.83%
6. NW 46.73%
7. Harvard 45.56%
8. Duke 43.72%
9. UVA 40.40%
10. Berkeley 39.02%
11. Stanford 35.82%
12. Michigan 34.35%
13. GT 33.70%
14. Yale 29.13%

Clerkship (Federal & State):
1. Stanford 32.08%
2. Yale 28.26%
3. UVA 19.19%
4. Harvard 18.43%
5. Michigan 17.94%
6. Chicago 16.66%
7. Berkeley 16.37%
8. Duke 16.27%
9. Cornell 14.13%
10. NW 12.02%
11. Penn 11.87%
12. NYU 08.97%
13. GT 08.46%
14. Columbia 05.34%

Biglaw + Clerkship 2014:
1. Chicago 71.42%
2. Penn 68.70%
3. Stanford 67.90%
4. Columbia 67.51%
5. Cornell 65.96%
6. Harvard 63.99%
7. NYU 63.45%
8. Duke 59.99%
9. UVA 59.59%
10. NW 58.75%
11. Yale 57.39%
12. Berkeley 55.39%
13. Michigan 52.29%
14. GT 42.16%

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

Depends how you define "Biglaw".

Yea, and that definition is a bad one, and not helpful to people trying to choose a law school. By that metric some of the most elite firms like, Cravath, Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Williams & Connolly aren't "big law." There are even a bunch of generic "big law" firms that don't meet it, i.e. Cadwalader or Fried Frank.

[Will McAvoy]

Sorry to revive this thread, but how exactly are you guys getting the numbers for state Supreme Court courtships?

[jbagelboy]

What's the significance of 500+ vs 100+?

None - pay should be same/similar. Guy is probably just trolling for Columbia.

Anyway, I think these costs are too high, so I'm leaning towards reapplying.

Agreed with the reapplying earlier.

You'd think CLS bros would have hardons for WLRK and CSM though, both of which are under 500. W&C too.

Yea they are actually trolling anti-Columbia, since CLS has better 100+ numbers comparatively. Also lol at including state clerkships.

[magicmagic]

Bumping due to new information.

I received a scholarship of $90,000 from Columbia and have subsequently withdrawn from Texas. I'm now realistically only considering Columbia or Duke, and am much less inclined to reapply next cycle.

While I will attempt to use Columbia to negotiate a higher amount at Duke, is Columbia now the clear better choice here?

If you want academia, Columbia is a better choice (even if Duke matches the 90k offer). However, COL will be significantly lower at Duke, so that's something to consider. Also, Duke is gorgeous.

You can still get academia from Duke, but it'll be a bit tougher.

[nate3869]

OP here.

I ended up deciding to reapply due in part to financial reasons (I didn't have the money for first month's rent) and in part because I found a job that I wouldn't mind doing for a year or so. I finished my final semester of college so my GPA is now at 3.6, with my LSAT being a 175. My goals and everything else is the same as my original post.

I'm thinking of applying NU ED. Would that be my best option here?