BC vs BU vs Emory vs GWU Forum

[FredTheFish]

Hey everyone, I am having a pretty hard time deciding between schools and potentially taking a year off. Any advice is appreciated!

Please don't quote this post.

Schools/COA:
I am currently negotiating for scholarships, so hopefully these numbers change, but with deadlines coming up April 15th, just pretend these are the final numbers. I will be taking out loans to finance all of this.

Boston College: $60,000 scholarship. COA= 150k
Boston University: $60,000 scholarship. COA= 150k
Emory: $99,000 scholarship. COA= 110k
George Washington: No scholarship at the moment. COA= 245k (yikes)
Undergraduate Debt: 25k

I'm from the Northeast with ties in PA, OH, TX, and slightly in D.C. I don't want to work in PA or OH by choice, so uprooting my life to Boston, D.C., or Atlanta is something I am really looking forward to. I've been to D.C. a lot and absolutely love it, have been to Boston and loved it, but have never been to Atlanta before. Based on the type of person I am, I would love working in any of these major cities, so no preference on location.

I would love to do Biglaw if the opportunity presents itself. Same goes for a clerkship. With that being said, I'm flexible with the type of work I'd be doing immediately out of law school, but I would like to settle and practice in one of my main interest areas (preferably at a boutique firm), which are environmental law, health care law, and anything pertaining to the biological sciences (I have a science background).

165/3.5
Took the LSAT twice, cancelled the second time because I was sick.

This is how I currently view my situation:

BC vs. BU:
Since BC and BU are virtually identical as far as employment opportunities go and co-dominate one of the largest legal markets in the country, it comes down to other factors in deciding between them. BC is hands down nicer than BU and has a similar campus feel/culture as my undergrad had, which I love. I feel BC is more collegial while BU is more professional with the average student probably being older. I really can't stress how ugly I think BU and that damn law tower is. Being a K-JD, I prefer BC on that front. On the other hand, BU is closer to downtown Boston, which might be more valuable for networking opportunities, as well as nightlife on the weekends. Since I don't have a car, it seems like BU wins in that department.

BU is ranked significantly higher in US News. I know rankings are "meaningless" but if that ranking leads to BU having better employment opportunities down the road, or is reflective of BC lacking in an important department, they might carry some weight to them.

The city of Boston itself is excellent. Being the top city for biotech, I feel I will have plenty of opportunities to practice in that area of law. The only real downside to the city is the weather, but I'm from the Northeast so I am used to it. BC and BU also place a decent amount in NYC, more so than your typical strong-regional. I love NYC too.

I don't know if undergoing 150k in debt from either BC or BU is worth it, but if I have a solid chance of gaining meaningful employment to pay that off, I'd be ok with that amount of debt.



Emory:
This is the cheapest option and in a booming city with warm weather. Emory also places a decent amount in NYC. I would pick Emory in a heartbeat, but the number of school-funded jobs scares me, as does the fact that Atlanta seems to be known as an insular market. Emory also doesn't place well in Biglaw (not that any of these schools do either, but Emory significantly less than the rest). I almost feel I should have just applied to UGA and gone there practically for free if I really wanted to work in Atlanta that bad. Either way though, it's cheap price is enticing.



GWU:
I'd be paying sticker so this is not a real consideration unless I get a scholarship over the next few days. Hypothetically speaking though, GWU has employment numbers on par with BC and BU, is located in one of my favorite cities, and would be able to grant me access to more government-related work, which is where a lot of environmental law jobs seem to reside. Their high number of school-funded jobs, as well as their huge concentration of Biglaw opportunities going to those in patent law really scare me though.



Taking a year off:
I've taken the LSAT twice and probably won't raise my score by much, if at all. I peaked at 168 and I left a few points on the table when I got my 165, but I was wildly inconsistent on my preptests. I'd also have to manage to find a full-time job to support myself and somehow find the time to put in all of those study hours. If I had a stable job in something like finance or something else business-related, I wouldn't have too much of an issue taking time off, but I have no job prospects and some undergraduate debt that I either need to take care of or defer by attending law school. With that being said, I am incredibly eager to start school and really do not even want to think about taking a year off working a shitty job and studying 30+ hours a week for the LSAT. I don't know if I have that in me. On the other hand, my dream school is Cornell. I'd probably get in with a 168, which is only a few more questions right on the LSAT. Cornell is Biglaw jobs galore and not far out of my score range.





Please don't quote this post.

[fliptrip]

Your COA figures are too low. You have to take into account interest accruals, origination fees, and tuition increases. For both BC/BU, you're looking at $188k.

None of your options right now are worth it at their current costs, but in terms of what's least bad, that would be BC/BU. Again, this is not a good investment of your many thousands of dollars, but if you insist on going and can't get it any cheaper, BC/BU are peers in every sense. For IP/Biotech, I'd lean BU, but that's only a slight lean.

[trebekismyhero]

Definitely go with taking the year off. A few more points and these schools are free and lower t14 comes into play.

[FredTheFish]

Your COA figures are too low. You have to take into account interest accruals, origination fees, and tuition increases. For both BC/BU, you're looking at $188k.

None of your options right now are worth it at their current costs, but in terms of what's least bad, that would be BC/BU. Again, this is not a good investment of your many thousands of dollars, but if you insist on going and can't get it any cheaper, BC/BU are peers in every sense. For IP/Biotech, I'd lean BU, but that's only a slight lean.

Good point about COA. Hopefully I can get a little bit more money out of them then.

Maybe i'm viewing this wrong, but I only think taking a year off and retaking is worth it if I were to bump my score from a 165 to 168+. If I only improve by a point or two, I may get into a few higher ranked schools like Vandy or UCLA, but I'd be paying sticker, and BC and BU have just as good employment numbers. If I only improve by a point or two, I would get more scholarship money from BC and BU, but the difference in scholarship money could be easily earned with one year's salary, which I would lose by taking a year off. Even if I improved by 3 points, maybe I get into Cornell but then I'd be paying sticker and in a similar dilemma I'm in now with debt. So I would need to improve pretty significantly, which I don't know if I can do.

So many hypotheticals here and such a tough decision!

[DChen]

Your COA figures are too low. You have to take into account interest accruals, origination fees, and tuition increases. For both BC/BU, you're looking at $188k.

None of your options right now are worth it at their current costs, but in terms of what's least bad, that would be BC/BU. Again, this is not a good investment of your many thousands of dollars, but if you insist on going and can't get it any cheaper, BC/BU are peers in every sense. For IP/Biotech, I'd lean BU, but that's only a slight lean.

Good point about COA. Hopefully I can get a little bit more money out of them then.

Maybe i'm viewing this wrong, but I only think taking a year off and retaking is worth it if I were to bump my score from a 165 to 168+. If I only improve by a point or two, I may get into a few higher ranked schools like Vandy or UCLA, but I'd be paying sticker, and BC and BU have just as good employment numbers. If I only improve by a point or two, I would get more scholarship money from BC and BU, but the difference in scholarship money could be easily earned with one year's salary, which I would lose by taking a year off. Even if I improved by 3 points, maybe I get into Cornell but then I'd be paying sticker and in a similar dilemma I'm in now with debt. So I would need to improve pretty significantly, which I don't know if I can do.

So many hypotheticals here and such a tough decision!

I fully agree with your analysis on the retake suggestion !One year gap is a high cost too.And I believe waht the job you can get after 3 years is based on many aspects or the achievements after 10 years,It does not depant on one's law school ONLY.What we should consider at the moment are money and city since all of the school are not bad.Retaking is not a good option for most of people I think.

[mogwli]

Maybe i'm viewing this wrong, but I only think taking a year off and retaking is worth it if I were to bump my score from a 165 to 168+. If I only improve by a point or two, I may get into a few higher ranked schools like Vandy or UCLA, but I'd be paying sticker, and BC and BU have just as good employment numbers. If I only improve by a point or two, I would get more scholarship money from BC and BU, but the difference in scholarship money could be easily earned with one year's salary, which I would lose by taking a year off. Even if I improved by 3 points, maybe I get into Cornell but then I'd be paying sticker and in a similar dilemma I'm in now with debt. So I would need to improve pretty significantly, which I don't know if I can do.

So many hypotheticals here and such a tough decision!

I think you are underestimating what a few points higher LSAT and applying EARLY in the cycle would do for you. I had slightly higher LSAT and comparable GPA, and I got 60k more in scholarships from BC total, and well less than sticker at UT/Vandy. Have you tried negotiating with the schools for more aid? That is a key step, but money runs out later in the cycle so might not be fruitful at this point.
Edit: to illustrate, BC first gave me aid that was lower than I got at Vandy/UT. I told them no chance of me going without more given that, and I got much more from them. Don't just accept their number.

But, if you're keen on not retaking, in no way would I ever choose GW with that cost. I'd choose either Emory or BC, but you better really work your ass off because a shitload of debt is going to haunt you for likely 7-10 years (best case).

Side note: this might ruffle some feathers but I wouldn't place BU as equal to BC anymore. USNWR rankings are utter bullshit. BC had significantly more placement in big law /fed clerkships (like 41%) this year than BU(~34%) and BU actually went down in those numbers this year(~36% last year). BU doesn't have the sway it used to have.

[legaleagle16]

I can weigh in on some of the things you said about BC vs. BU. I'm a 3L at BC with a Boston BigLaw job, with friends at BU (and my father went there 35 years ago). In terms of the Boston job market, it's completely split between the schools. There are roughly the same number of BC/BU associates at every top law firm in Boston. The two schools completely dominate the market since most Harvard people leave. Personality wise, you are spot on. BC is younger and generally more collegial. BC really is a super friendly school, and even the most ardent gunners (with the exception of 2-3 people) are more than happy to study with you and share outlines.

In terms of the rankings, a lot of people at BC are worried about long-term problems with our ranking falling below BU. Honestly, I don't think it will affect the Boston market at all, because there are so many BC alumni. However, for more distant markets/clerkships/non-law jobs, it may eventually make a difference. I doubt it will in the immediate future, however.

Finally, in terms of transportation, not having a car at BC is no big deal. I haven't had one in my three years. There's a shuttle bus that goes to the law school from Cleveland Circle in Brighton, where most law students live. Cleveland circle has access to 3 T lines, so you can get anywhere in the city pretty quick. Also Allston is gross (where BU is).

In terms of financials, definitely a tough question. I will say I got a BigLaw job with grades a little outside the top 1/3 with a journal. The Boston market is hiring, so if you come here, you'll have a great shot. Good luck!