Duke $ v. UCLA $$ v. WUSTL $$$ Forum

[lacroix123]

School - Scholarship
Duke - 54k
UCLA - 70k
WUSTL - 129k
Vandy - 110k

3.6 / 169

Graduated with a Biochemistry degree and have summer work experience clerking for an IP firm in St. Louis. Looking to go into big to mid sized IP/Patent litigation with an eye towards going in-house for the right biotech company. Looking to land in a major city (LA/Chicago/etc.)

I'm from St. Louis so, with remaining college savings, would leave WUSTL debt free. Went to UG in LA and would love to go back to SoCal but worried about taking on 100k of debt for a non T-14 school. No connection to Duke other than it's a T-14 school offering good money, but as it stands right now I'd be close to 120k of debt. Currently trying to negotiate each one off the others but no updates yet.

At the start of the cycle I would have said no to going back to St. Louis, but with WUSTL throwing money around like crazy they are forcing me to consider. Still, worried about the margin of error in going to the third-best school I got in to (I'd have to place top 10% to have viable offers outside of STL). Obviously the competition at Duke is elevated, but the national reach is unlike any of the other schools.

Am I crazy for wanting to pass on a debt-free exit from WUSTL? Is UCLA worth that much debt given it has location and my undergrad network to build off of? Does Duke's T-14 status trump UCLA at similar money but (comparatively) isolated location and no previous network in the south?

[cron1834]

With an IP background, I could rationally justify Duke at $120. I think you'll be just fine whatever you choose.

[lymenheimer]

You should calculate cost of attendance and throw the numbers up. A 54k scholly from Duke will put you just under 200k in debt. And if youre throwing all of your savings at school and still come out with 120k, i think that changes people's opinion (see almost all of the choosing threads where people are planning on using savings). Calculate cost of attendance (use the georgetown calculator if you'd like) so people can get a better feel of what you will be spending to attend.

[Hikikomorist]

With your numbers, you should not even consider WUSTL with less than a full-tuition scholarship.

[lacroix123]

Which number do I use for COA on GULC? The "Total Indebtedness at Repayment" or "Total Loan Payments over 10 yrs"?

[SplitMyPants]

Don't do IP lit if you want to go in-house. See discussion here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=229216.

[lymenheimer]

Which number do I use for COA on GULC? The "Total Indebtedness at Repayment" or "Total Loan Payments over 10 yrs"?

I just use the total indebtedness number. Especially since there are different pay plans, etc. the total indebtedness at repayment is an easier metric.

[L’Étranger]

Tough one. Have you negotiated with UCLA? They should up their offer.

Duke doesn't have national reach. True, it's an awesome school, but you'll have to be at the top of your class there to get IP lit in Southern California.

Also, undergraduate/graduate network is flame.

If UCLA offers more money, its the right option.

Otherwise, it's a toss-up. You'll have to be at the top of your class at all of these options to land IP lit in Southern California.

[lacroix123]

Which number do I use for COA on GULC? The "Total Indebtedness at Repayment" or "Total Loan Payments over 10 yrs"?

I just use the total indebtedness number. Especially since there are different pay plans, etc. the total indebtedness at repayment is an easier metric.

I guess I low balled the original numbers a bit (assumed I could find cheaper living arrangements after my first year). Anyway, here are the COA numbers:

UCLA: 135k
Duke: 175k

[lacroix123]

Tough one. Have you negotiated with UCLA? They should up their offer.

Duke doesn't have national reach. True, it's an awesome school, but you'll have to be at the top of your class there to get IP lit in Southern California.

Also, undergraduate/graduate network is flame.

If UCLA offers more money, its the right option.

Otherwise, it's a toss-up. You'll have to be at the top of your class at all of these options to land IP lit in Southern California.

Just recently reached out to UCLA to negotiate. Expecting them to come up but not sure by how much. Any tips on negotiating these different offers? I've seen some people say they double/triple deposited and tried to continue negotiations into the summer. Is this a viable plan / do schools still play ball? Or is it just annoying/childish and I need to just choose?

[SplitMyPants]

Duke doesn't have national reach. True, it's an awesome school, but you'll have to be at the top of your class there to get IP lit in Southern California.

lmfao

Duke sends countless students each year to northern and southern california.

OP, depending on your ties, you could maybe even land SoCal 1L SA from Duke. I say maybe only bc you're biochem and not ee/cs.

[cub1014]

[quote="L’Étranger"]

Duke DOES have national reach. Look at the employment stats by state. Plus at ASW they gave a list with the 2L employment locations and firm of every reported employed student. Just eyeballing it it looks like 27 people went to California, 8 of those to Palo Alto and 6 to San Fran, 3 to LA, and 2 to San Diego, there's a Newport beach, orange County, Irvine listed among a couple others. To be fair I'm a 0L too deciding but I think you deserve the raw numbers to help you decide.

[Tiago Splitter]

It's possible that Duke places a lot of people in CA and that you need to have great grades or ties to get there.

[SplitMyPants]

It's possible that Duke places a lot of people in CA and that you need to have great grades or ties to get there.

Sure. It's no New York, but saying "you'll have to be at the top of your class" is already a bit much, even without the "to get IP lit [with a hard science background]" part...

[L’Étranger]

It's possible that Duke places a lot of people in CA and that you need to have great grades or ties to get there.

This

[L’Étranger]

It's possible that Duke places a lot of people in CA and that you need to have great grades or ties to get there.

Sure. It's no New York, but saying "you'll have to be at the top of your class" is already a bit much, even without the "to get IP lit [with a hard science background]" part...

1) Big law firms typically interview by office (e.g. NY office, LA office). D doesn't attract as many CA offices to their OCI as UCLA. So you have to have top grades to compete to the relatively few that will come to D's OCI

2) Mass mail from D will require top grades to get your resume picked off the pile

If OP was considering NYC biglaw, D would likely be the better option.

BTW, everyone going into ip lit these days has a patent registration elgible background, so a hard science background is not a huge deal

[SplitMyPants]

Interviewing through OTIP helps.

Also, your last part ignores the fact that fewer people have hard science backgrounds... So yeah, you won't stand out at Loyola patent fair with a hard science background. But, at the same time, the very fact that you are eligible for the jobs at Loyola gets you pretty far to being jobbed.

[Tls2016]

My understanding was that biology and biochem were not in demand for IP? That is based solely on this forum and posts from a few non engineers looking for IP work.

[LitttUp]

Correct. Bio and biochem are not in demand at all (unless PhD). Even then, very few patents coming through call for a general bio background (unless maybe in San Diego).