under-performed Numbers? Forum

[theconsigliere]

*redacted* but if you stumble upon this thread and want the information feel free to pm

[Foghornleghorn]

I don't have an explanation for you. But, rest assured your scholarships are pretty close together, your cost of attendance at each school is further apart..

Rent and living expenses in Ann Arbor and Southside Chicago (though higher than Michigan) are much lower compared to Manhattan. You'd likely have gotten a higher offer from Northwestern, did you apply?

[theconsigliere]

I don't have an explanation for you. But, rest assured your scholarships are pretty close together, your cost of attendance at each school is further apart..

Rent and living expenses in Ann Arbor and Southside Chicago (though higher than Michigan) are much lower compared to Manhattan. You'd likely have gotten a higher offer from Northwestern, did you apply?

I did not. the whole "NU only likes people with WE" thing dissuaded me from applying. maybe that was a mistake.

[Foghornleghorn]

They tend to favor it, but, at your numbers, they likely would have tried to get you. Especially with recent donations.

Any chance you could work for a year and reapply super early next round? You've got good money at a lot of places, but a little WE might get you the full-ride (or much closer, I think ED at NU is full ride- 5k) you want.

[fliptrip]

Did you apply to the entire T-14? There's a lot of variance even when you have super high numbers and if you don't apply to enough schools you typically won't see the expected outcomes. For instance, Stanford would probably have taken you with that GPA and beautiful LSAT. But, if you want to look for holes/potential issues, you might have to overcome some serious doubt about why you'd want to go to law school. Why would someone still in school who has had as much success as you in your STEM field want to go to law school? How well you did or did not make that case could have had an impact.

Also, when did you apply?

[theconsigliere]

Did you apply to the entire T-14? There's a lot of variance even when you have super high numbers and if you don't apply to enough schools you typically won't see the expected outcomes. For instance, Stanford would probably have taken you with that GPA and beautiful LSAT. But, if you want to look for holes/potential issues, you might have to overcome some serious doubt about why you'd want to go to law school. Why would someone still in school who has had as much success as you in your STEM field want to go to law school? How well you did or did not make that case could have had an impact.

Also, when did you apply?

Applied to most in November. Applied to one or two around New Years. Yale was really late bc I thought "ehh why not?" I didn't apply to Stanford for the same reason I hadn't applied to Yale; also didn't apply to Berkeley (no desire to live in CA), NU (already explained), and Gtown (because cmon). And fwiw my PS basically addressed the question about why I would want to go to law school given my major.

[fliptrip]

So, then with all that, I'd say yes you're underperforming your numbers. The question now becomes do you want to go now or do you want to wait to see if you get maximum outcomes?

Don't give up on Yale. It could happen, especially with you having published a thesis, I'm sure you were able to develop the kinds of relationships with professors that produce the kinds of recommendation letters YLS love love loves. You might even be able to negotiate a full-ride out of one of these schools.

[RZ5646]

I don't have an explanation for you. But, rest assured your scholarships are pretty close together, your cost of attendance at each school is further apart..

Rent and living expenses in Ann Arbor and Southside Chicago (though higher than Michigan) are much lower compared to Manhattan. You'd likely have gotten a higher offer from Northwestern, did you apply?

I did not. the whole "NU only likes people with WE" thing dissuaded me from applying. maybe that was a mistake.

Nah, I was waitlisted at Northwestern.

As we've discussed before, you should reapply. Your current offers are okay, but accepting any of them would be leaving a lot of money on the table. Taking a year off might not be fun, but your future self will thank you for not wasting the opportunities you've earned by achieving such a high GPA and LSAT score.

[Tls2016]

about me: 176/3.9ish STEM major. still in college. not urm. best soft is some solid (for a UG) research in my major field; one paper published, two more on the way, one of which is based on my senior thesis. overall my softs are below average for sure.

the reason I am posting this is that, based on what I read on TLS, I feel like I under-performed my stats. here is what I've got for offers right now:

WL at Harvard; no js1
still pending at Yale, but c'mon

WL at UVA & pending at Penn

in at the following (money/year):
Duke ($35,000)
Michigan ($40,000)
Chicago ($30,000)
NYU ($45,000 w. 1/2 of this amount in the 3rd year)
Columbia (??? no word yet)

I have tried asking for more and haven't yet been told "yes" or "no" by any school; also it's not like I have one offer which blows away the others so I'm having a hard time seeing what to leverage against what. clearly I'm getting less than conventional TLS wisdom says I should get. some people have told me that I should be choosing between (at least one of) HYS and T14 full ride. while this sounds nice, it clearly isn't reality. I find it hard to imagine that *everyone* with my numbers gets HYS or a full ride to a T14. maybe I'm wrong though.

please help.

How sure are you that your application is the best it could be? I agree that something is wrong here. Could you have a poor recommendation? Not sure about the conventional wisdom that you will be in at one of HYS being true. Maybe H. Not getting a JS1 with your numbers makes me think your application is lacking.

I agree you should take a year off and get work experience and reapply.

[theconsigliere]

about me: 176/3.9ish STEM major. still in college. not urm. best soft is some solid (for a UG) research in my major field; one paper published, two more on the way, one of which is based on my senior thesis. overall my softs are below average for sure.

the reason I am posting this is that, based on what I read on TLS, I feel like I under-performed my stats. here is what I've got for offers right now:

WL at Harvard; no js1
still pending at Yale, but c'mon

WL at UVA & pending at Penn

in at the following (money/year):
Duke ($35,000)
Michigan ($40,000)
Chicago ($30,000)
NYU ($45,000 w. 1/2 of this amount in the 3rd year)
Columbia (??? no word yet)

I have tried asking for more and haven't yet been told "yes" or "no" by any school; also it's not like I have one offer which blows away the others so I'm having a hard time seeing what to leverage against what. clearly I'm getting less than conventional TLS wisdom says I should get. some people have told me that I should be choosing between (at least one of) HYS and T14 full ride. while this sounds nice, it clearly isn't reality. I find it hard to imagine that *everyone* with my numbers gets HYS or a full ride to a T14. maybe I'm wrong though.

please help.

How sure are you that your application is the best it could be? I agree that something is wrong here. Could you have a poor recommendation? Not sure about the conventional wisdom that you will be in at one of HYS being true. Maybe H. Not getting a JS1 with your numbers makes me think your application is lacking.

I agree you should take a year off and get work experience and reapply.

fwiw, one of my LORs should be pretty good, and the other I'm certain is fantastic

[gamerish]

about me: 176/3.9ish STEM major. still in college. not urm. best soft is some solid (for a UG) research in my major field; one paper published, two more on the way, one of which is based on my senior thesis. overall my softs are below average for sure.

the reason I am posting this is that, based on what I read on TLS, I feel like I under-performed my stats. here is what I've got for offers right now:

WL at Harvard; no js1
still pending at Yale, but c'mon

WL at UVA & pending at Penn

in at the following (money/year):
Duke ($35,000)
Michigan ($40,000)
Chicago ($30,000)
NYU ($45,000 w. 1/2 of this amount in the 3rd year)
Columbia (??? no word yet)

I have tried asking for more and haven't yet been told "yes" or "no" by any school; also it's not like I have one offer which blows away the others so I'm having a hard time seeing what to leverage against what. clearly I'm getting less than conventional TLS wisdom says I should get. some people have told me that I should be choosing between (at least one of) HYS and T14 full ride. while this sounds nice, it clearly isn't reality. I find it hard to imagine that *everyone* with my numbers gets HYS or a full ride to a T14. maybe I'm wrong though.

please help.

How sure are you that your application is the best it could be? I agree that something is wrong here. Could you have a poor recommendation? Not sure about the conventional wisdom that you will be in at one of HYS being true. Maybe H. Not getting a JS1 with your numbers makes me think your application is lacking.

I agree you should take a year off and get work experience and reapply.

fwiw, one of my LORs should be pretty good, and the other I'm certain is fantastic

If you haven't already, I would post your PS in the PS section and have neutral parties look over it for something glaringly wrong. A problem there or in your LORs, given no CF issues, are the only things off the top of my head that could result in someone with your stats, especially being STEM, not evening getting a JS1 (especially since you did not apply very late).

Should you decide to reapply, do yourself a favor and sweep the entirety of the T14 (though you can defensibly omit GTown). Anecdotally, I had similar reservations about NU given my own lack of WE and lackluster softs and got (virtually) a full ride.

[cron1834]

Unless your PS ventures into non-PC directions, you def underperformed.

[t-14orbust]

I didn't even know this could happen. There must be something glaringly wrong with your app. So much for the argument that H is all numbers.

[Tls2016]

I wonder about OPs recommendations not being great for law school.Maybe someone said OP will make a good scientist and shouldn't go to law school. Something is definitely wrong.

OP: your numbers are high enough that there aren't many examples but on LSN 176/3.9 looks to be in at Harvard 100%.

[theconsigliere]

I wonder about OPs recommendations not being great for law school.Maybe someone said OP will make a good scientist and shouldn't go to law school. Something is definitely wrong.

OP: your numbers are high enough that there aren't many examples but on LSN 176/3.9 looks to be in at Harvard 100%.

An interesting thought but I had a legit conversation with my writers about the sorts of things they could write and I don't think either of them said something like that

[RZ5646]

FWIW, I had stats similar to OP's and I had a very similar cycle. I don't think his results are anomalous or that there must have been something glaringly wrong with his app. Being K-JD is a big disadvantage. High numbers will get you into every non-HYS school (barring yield protection), but you're not getting a named full ride without some serious softs, e.g., professional work experience.

[Tls2016]

FWIW, I had stats similar to OP's and I had a very similar cycle. I don't think his results are anomalous or that there must have been something glaringly wrong with his app. Being K-JD is a big disadvantage. High numbers will get you into every non-HYS school (barring yield protection), but you're not getting a named full ride without some serious softs, e.g., professional work experience.

Good to know. But I am sure I've seen others with lower numbers and not great softs or work experience get more money. I'm not talking about named full rides though I know OP was.
Maybe Spivey has some insight on this issue of high numbers, good app, ok softs and these results.
Would a year of work experience make a huge difference?

[theconsigliere]

FWIW, I had stats similar to OP's and I had a very similar cycle. I don't think his results are anomalous or that there must have been something glaringly wrong with his app. Being K-JD is a big disadvantage. High numbers will get you into every non-HYS school (barring yield protection), but you're not getting a named full ride without some serious softs, e.g., professional work experience.

Good to know. But I am sure I've seen others with lower numbers and not great softs or work experience get more money. I'm not talking about named full rides though I know OP was.
Maybe Spivey has some insight on this issue of high numbers, good app, ok softs and these results.
Would a year of work experience make a huge difference?

I wasn't necessarily thinking named full scholly, e.g. Hamilton, Ruby, Mordecai, etc. In my mind I was thinking of $50k+/year as a "full scholarship" (even though most schools cost high 50s, I know).

[sims1]

FWIW I had a very similar cycle with very similar #'s and also K-JD.

[ms9]

FWIW, I had stats similar to OP's and I had a very similar cycle. I don't think his results are anomalous or that there must have been something glaringly wrong with his app. Being K-JD is a big disadvantage. High numbers will get you into every non-HYS school (barring yield protection), but you're not getting a named full ride without some serious softs, e.g., professional work experience.

Good to know. But I am sure I've seen others with lower numbers and not great softs or work experience get more money. I'm not talking about named full rides though I know OP was.
Maybe Spivey has some insight on this issue of high numbers, good app, ok softs and these results.
Would a year of work experience make a huge difference?

Here is something I had a brief amount of time to contribute to the thoughts on this. Certainly I think this is happening to a number of people.

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/underw ... happening/

[fliptrip]

When Spivey talks, people listen...

/thread