BU for free vs. Berkeley w/ full tuition, vs. Michigan w/150k Forum

[180kickflip]

thanks for the advice all

[Vandy2bforrealz]

With those nice scholarships did you get accepted into Harvard? Their LRAP would pull you through with your goals.

[sd5289]

Stats?

40K out of Berkeley ain't bad, and I'm guessing Michigan would cost more than that since you're saying you got $150K from them, so between those two, I'd say Berkeley.

Know plenty of people who came out of BU in a "good" spot, and hard to argue with something that's literally free. BU doesn't just place in Boston though. Plenty of BU grads end up in NYC, DC, and Cali.

[180kickflip]

With those nice scholarships did you get accepted into Harvard? Their LRAP would pull you through with your goals.

Sadly, no

[fliptrip]

This is a lot of fun.

I want to tell you to go to Berkeley because that seems like such a refreshing way to spend 3 years in school, but honestly, you have no reason not to take BU. I think you're underselling your odds of scoring BigLaw as a URM and you want to stay in the Bean. I think this one's a slam dunk.

[Vandy2bforrealz]

BU is a clear winner in your situation. You will sill have to perform but you can't lose due to the "free" degree. I personally think outside of HYS that it doesn't really matter where you attend as long as it's a respected school in your desired practice area and they offer you a ton on money to attend. With HYS off the table you still have amazing and almost equivalent options and at this time you should just select the best fit.

[Tiago Splitter]

BU is fine if you get comfortable with an outcome that isn't what you are looking for. Otherwise you have to go T-14.

[rpupkin]

This is a lot of fun.

I want to tell you to go to Berkeley because that seems like such a refreshing way to spend 3 years in school, but honestly, you have no reason not to take BU. I think you're underselling your odds of scoring BigLaw as a URM and you want to stay in the Bean. I think this one's a slam dunk.

You really think it's a slam dunk? I can see the argument for BU here, but turning down a full ride to a T14 should not be done lightly. With OP's Boston ties and URM status, getting a job in Boston shouldn't be a problem out of Berkeley, regardless of grades. And if OP's interests change while in law school—something that happens all the time—Berkeley will open up more doors. Although the question is close, I lean toward Berkeley.

[fliptrip]

This is a lot of fun.

I want to tell you to go to Berkeley because that seems like such a refreshing way to spend 3 years in school, but honestly, you have no reason not to take BU. I think you're underselling your odds of scoring BigLaw as a URM and you want to stay in the Bean. I think this one's a slam dunk.

You really think it's a slam dunk? I can see the argument for BU here, but turning down a full ride to a T14 should not be done lightly. With OP's Boston ties and URM status, getting a job in Boston shouldn't be a problem out of Berkeley, regardless of grades. And if OP's interests change while in law school—something that happens all the time—Berkeley will open up more doors. Although the question is close, I lean toward Berkeley.

That's info I didn't feel too confident in. That definitely changes things...definitely not a slam dunk.

[180kickflip]

BU is a clear winner in your situation. You will sill have to perform but you can't lose due to the "free" degree. I personally think outside of HYS that it doesn't really matter where you attend as long as it's a respected school in your desired practice area and they offer you a ton on money to attend. With HYS off the table you still have amazing and almost equivalent options and at this time you should just select the best fit.

[180kickflip]

BU is fine if you get comfortable with an outcome that isn't what you are looking for. Otherwise you have to go T-14.

Yeah...If I take on another 3 years of school and come out working long hours to fight my way up from 50-70k, I won't be too happy.

[lymenheimer]

BU is a clear winner in your situation. You will sill have to perform but you can't lose due to the "free" degree. I personally think outside of HYS that it doesn't really matter where you attend as long as it's a respected school in your desired practice area and they offer you a ton on money to attend. With HYS off the table you still have amazing and almost equivalent options and at this time you should just select the best fit.

I guess what scares me about looking at the BU offer as "free" is the opportunity cost. I'm 30+ (and w/ a kid), so if I go to school for 3 years and don't come out with the position I'm shooting for (biglaw or bigfed), I'll definitely feel like I paid a price.

To be blunt, Vandy is a 0L whos opinion and thoughts have no effect on legal hiring. I too am a 0L, but youre playing with different odds here. In the market + URM (diversity positions?) or market ties + t14 + urm? If youre gonna be upset about not getting biglaw (ie career outcome>location), boalt is probably a better choice, just to hedge against the likelihood of your class rank. And its free, other than COL, which isnt a huge amount of debt/cost.

[Vandy2bforrealz]

.

[lymenheimer]

"Vandy" is a 0l(I hate 3rd person references to myself) but I too am an urm (probably the same as op) with a couple of top 14 options and ties to the area of the school I desire to attend. There is no point in going to a state school in California just so you can work in Boston. None. He may have to do a little more legwork at BU or BC than he would at Michigan or Boalt for a big law job but he is in a good enough school to land a job by leaning on ties and interviewing well. Op will likely be fine.

Because you have the same options does not mean you have the same goals, nor does not mean that your opinion affects the legal hiring process. OP has conveyed that his interest is more in a biglaw/fed position than specifically living in Boston. And while fed may have different hiring practices to biglaw, theres a better chance of OP getting a biglaw gig from Boalt than BU.

eta: also there's a difference between sticker @ Mich vs Vandy at discount and free BU vs free Boalt.

[Iwanttolawschool]

This is so easily Berkeley that its not funny reading you think about BU. Berkeley is one of the most respected schools in the world, having that on your resume will open doors in both the short-term and long-term.

[Tls2016]

"Vandy" is a 0l(I hate 3rd person references to myself) but I too am an urm (probably the same as op) with a couple of top 14 options and ties to the area of the school I desire to attend. There is no point in going to a state school in California just so you can work in Boston. None. He may have to do a little more legwork at BU or BC than he would at Michigan or Boalt for a big law job but he is in a good enough school to land a job by leaning on ties and interviewing well. Op will likely be fine.

How much "legwork" do you think he will need? I can't even find the biglaw stats of BU on LST. Maybe I made an error but it looks like the school declines to give the data?

[mt2165]

The fact of the matter is that biglaw from BU is no slam dunk. BU is a decent law school with good biglaw placement for a non-T14 law school. However, you have no idea where you'll be in the class and I imagine being median or below median at BU is not a good place to be regarding biglaw hiring, regardless of URM status. That also being said, I don't want to underplay the difficulties of trying to penetrate a market on the other side of the country even with ties, for a multiple of reasons (e.g. travel expenses, networking, participants at oci, etc). All that being said, I would probably take Berkeley because a free T14 is a great deal and you're very likely to get biglaw (even if not in boston, but also very likely if you play it right and have solidish grades).

[Tls2016]

I would take Berkeley for free. The smart people are mass mailing for jobs before OCI anyway and not relying on OCI.
Chances are OPs first job will be in NYC.

[iskim88]

2L at BU.

As much as I love the school I don't think Berkeley at free is something you should pass up on, especially given your goals of biglaw or fed.

Congrats and don't worry too much about 50k or whatever debt you will be sitting on. You won't default (I promise).

If you decide to come to BU, let's chat. It's a great school, but I would not have passed up on T14 at only CoL.

[existentialcrisis]

This is a lot of fun.

I want to tell you to go to Berkeley because that seems like such a refreshing way to spend 3 years in school, but honestly, you have no reason not to take BU. I think you're underselling your odds of scoring BigLaw as a URM and you want to stay in the Bean. I think this one's a slam dunk.

You really think it's a slam dunk? I can see the argument for BU here, but turning down a full ride to a T14 should not be done lightly. With OP's Boston ties and URM status, getting a job in Boston shouldn't be a problem out of Berkeley, regardless of grades. And if OP's interests change while in law school—something that happens all the time—Berkeley will open up more doors. Although the question is close, I lean toward Berkeley.

That's info I didn't feel too confident in. That definitely changes things...definitely not a slam dunk.

I think as a URM at t-14 with strong ties to Boston, getting Boston big law is pretty close to a "slam dunk." Whereas, at BU, grades might come into play to a certain extent (although I doubt they'd need to be tippy top).

I think you're seriously underestimating the value of T14 with ties.

[fliptrip]

Well, then, this breaks down pretty simply kick if you look at downside risk.

At BU, your downside is striking out on biglaw.
At Berkeley, your downside is getting biglaw in your less than ideal location.

Seems like you do care a lot more about your employment outcome than the location of your employment, so Berkeley it is.

[zhenders]

OP, so much of this comes down to your individual circumstances. With children, there are obviously very substantial costs (monetary and otherwise) which you'll be factoring in, and which none of us here can help you with (at least, not better than very generally).

The fewer your non-school financial and personal obligations in the immediate, the better Berk looks. In a vacuum, I would absolutely choose B over BU in this situation, even if I wanted to end up in Boston Biglaw. I further agree with other posters that having Boston ties makes this choice substantially easier -- again, in a vacuum.

In my mind, with the Berk offer on the table, taking BU just seems too risky; then again, if going to California means enormous costs and lifestyle changes for all involved, perhaps your risk analysis bends more in the other direction.

Good luck with this tough choice; know that you have great options regardless.

[Tiago Splitter]

This is so easily Berkeley that its not funny reading you think about BU. Berkeley is one of the most respected schools in the world, having that on your resume will open doors in both the short-term and long-term.

If OP were single, sure. But OP has a spouse and a kid in Boston.

[Zero99]

Wouldn't call getting Boston big law from Berkeley a "slam dunk." Odds are that OP could probably do it, but I'd think the more likely placement is NY. Even at BU, probably half the class that gets biglaw gets it outside Boston. That said, between 1L URM fellowships and OCI, OP could probably get his/her foot in the door from Berkeley or BU. I don't see Berkeley as the clear choice above BU here, especially if it involves uprooting a family.

[180kickflip]

Well, then, this breaks down pretty simply kick if you look at downside risk.

At BU, your downside is striking out on biglaw.
At Berkeley, your downside is getting biglaw in your less than ideal location.

Seems like you do care a lot more about your employment outcome than the location of your employment, so Berkeley it is.