... Forum

[WatchClosely]

.

[James.K.Polk]

For reference, what are your other offers?

WashU offers a full ride to many people. A little more than 50% of the enrolled class, actually, and a great number of applicants every cycle. It makes for a nice option but decreases WUSTL's leveraging power against other schools, I think. Still, you may be better off going to Vandy or Texas, if such options exist, and negotiating with your full-ride.

Also, someone will come in here and make you post the general 5 points, like stats and how many times you've taken the LSAT, etc. See the sticky.

[Nagster5]

I feel like I under-performed my numbers, and am disappointed that I was unable to get acceptances from any T14 schools aside from UVA this cycle.

My best offers are WASHU (full scholarship) and UVA (sticker). Between those, I favor attending WASHU because of the scholarship...

That being said, I am currently debating three options:
1. Matriculating at WASHU with the full ride.
2. Matriculating nowhere, waiting a year, and reapplying everywhere next year with a more polished application in the hopes of scoring some T14 money (with WASHU full ride as a serviceable backup plan).
3. Matriculating at UVA at sticker.

Basically, I am concerned that my career options will be severely limited if I attend WASHU rather than a T14 school. In an ideal world, I dream of eventually becoming a prominent United States Attorney. Would that door close permanently to me if I attend WASHU over a mid/lower T14 school? Would the DoJ Honors Program still be a possibility? How about prestigious clerkships?

Essentially, what DoJ positions move from "incredibly difficult to obtain" to "literally impossible to obtain" if I attend WASHU over a mid/lower T14 school?

None of those things are closed to you, your margin of error is just smaller. Any of those goals can be achieved at WUSTL.

DOJ Honors took 125 people out of 3000 applicants. Those people were from 70 schools, it's not a T14 exclusive program. It's much more focused on relevant experience/interest (as opposed to school/class rank) than other hiring from what I've heard.

What is a prestigious clerkship to you? Anything other than SCOTUS should be open to you. Last SCOTUS clerk from WUSTL was >50 years ago, UVA sends at least a couple every year.

A big question here is are you ok with practicing in Missouri? If so, I think the full ride is the objectively better option.

Also, WUSTL gave me a 45k stipend and my GPA and LSAT are lower than yours. Email them April 1/2nd when those offers expire asking for a stipend and I'll bet you could snag the money I left on the table.

ETA: Honestly, looking at your cycle vs. mine, I think you must have had a fairly weak app. I have military experience, but there's no way that makes up for the difference in our results, especially given your softs are also highly unique and impressive. I would sit a year, really polish the apps, and get them in early. You are right in feeling you underperformed your numbers.

[WatchClosely]

.

[James.K.Polk]

For reference, what are your other offers?

WashU offers a full ride to many people. A little more than 50% of the enrolled class, actually, and a great number of applicants every cycle. It makes for a nice option but decreases WUSTL's leveraging power against other schools, I think. Still, you may be better off going to Vandy or Texas, if such options exist, and negotiating with your full-ride.

Also, someone will come in here and make you post the general 5 points, like stats and how many times you've taken the LSAT, etc. See the sticky.

My other offers are pretty irrelevant. Half tuition at W&M (alma mater), and decent money from Emory (~35k annual) and Vanderbilt (25k annual). The later two schools unsurprisingly refused to negotiate when presented with the competing WASHU offer.

Where did you get the information that "more than 50% of the enrolled class" attends on full scholarship? The WASHU 509 shows it's only 8%, with another 41% receiving between half and full and 1% receiving some sort of stipend.

I updated the original post with the general points you mentioned. That information and more can be found at: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/WatchClosely

Shoot, maybe misinformation - a current WashU Law student gave me that fact, maybe he was off. Or maybe it was more like 'it seems like...' Either way, like Nagster said, I'd try and negotiate for me. You, me, and Nagster might be the 3 biggest splitters on TLS this cycle...

Anyway! I would also give a shot at Vandy negotiation. Generally they don't move (my case included, same with Emory) but they are a better school on most accounts than WashU, and should situation more for practice in Virginia/DC. "Worst" case, they offer you more, and you take it back to Wash U for a stipend!

[WatchClosely]

.

[PeanutsNJam]

Given a strong application, and your numbers, your best option on the table should have been substantial money at Northwestern.

And yes, the only doors closed to you at Wash U would be things like SCOTUS clerkships, perhaps incredibly competitive judges at the COA level (Posner, or any of the SCOTUS nominees, etc.), and firms that barely dip outside HYS or the top 5% of T14 (Wachtell, Munger Tolles Olson, elite lit boutiques, etc.).

A couple people get V5/V10/V20 whatever, and people do go to NYC/DC/Chi/Cali. The above poster is right in that your margin of error is much smaller. If you want interviews at selective firms, you need to be in the top 10%, maybe 15% depending on the market, whereas in the T14 being in the top third is generally sufficient. And anecdotally, any LSAT and 1L grade correlation is not dependable.

Given that WUSTL is not close to any major market (except maybe Chi), ties to the market you want to work in are paramount if your grades aren't up to snuff. If you grew up in Atlanta or something, and your daddy grew up in Atlanta, and your daddy's daddy grew up in Atlanta, and you really want to work in Atlanta, strong ties may be able to overcome less than stellar grades with Atlanta firms. This is highly idiosyncratic and unpredictable, but it's not impossible.

And just lol no, full rides account for maybe 25% of the class tops. Certainly not over 50%.

[gaddockteeg]

Given your location preferences, I like the idea of waiting and applying again. I think you can and should be able to get GULC with $$$ which IMO is a really good compromise between your two current options.

[Biglaw1990]

.

[WatchClosely]

.

[heresthesitch]

You, me, and Nagster might be the 3 biggest splitters on TLS this cycle...

I think you're forgetting someone

So happy WatchClosely started this thread. I'm also debating the same question still. For reference, I submitted GPA addendum to all schools, as well as some essays. Similar results, but if anything changes I think it'll be in how the waitlist results happen. Being a splitter makes things so difficult to predict, and few schools like to pick up splitters right off the bat apparently (as my 9 waitlists and 2 still pending results might indicate). As for T14 vs other, it's also hard to predict as its nigh impossible to predict what your class placement will be at any given school. I don't think it's so safe to assume that being accepted to say the #8 ranked schools means you'll place so much higher at a school ranked #18.

[WatchClosely]

.

[jrass]

Many doors would be closed to you. For starters you generally need to have a valid ID to unlock the doors to get into the building, and depending on the institution the bathroom doors may be closed as well. It's worth noting that even if you go to a t-14 many doors will be closed as well. For example your ID card at Yale will be useful to open doors to the Yale buildings, but won't do you much good at Penn and vice versa. To unlock every door you'll likely need an ID card to every law school. Hope this helps!

[WheatThins]

A huge percentage of the class of 2016 are on "full rides". That is in quotes because they were actually 48k scholarships for three years, which was a full ride in 2013/2014. As tuition has gone up, these technically aren't full rides and many people who were on a "full ride" owe a couple thousand to the school this year.

[WatchClosely]

.

[jrass]

A huge percentage of the class of 2016 are on "full rides". That is in quotes because they were actually 48k scholarships for three years, which was a full ride in 2013/2014. As tuition has gone up, these technically aren't full rides and many people who were on a "full ride" owe a couple thousand to the school this year.

In retail there are 3 strategies. The brands aimed at high society have stably high prices, and never offer sales more than 15%. The brands marketed towards the every (wo)man have prices that are very low from the start, and often go on clearance. One of the most profitable strategies, however, is to price every wo(man) products like more expensive brands to seem prestigious, but then offer major sales so people feel like they're getting the deal.

[WheatThins]

A huge percentage of the class of 2016 are on "full rides". That is in quotes because they were actually 48k scholarships for three years, which was a full ride in 2013/2014. As tuition has gone up, these technically aren't full rides and many people who were on a "full ride" owe a couple thousand to the school this year.

In retail there are 3 strategies. The brands aimed at high society have stably high prices, and never offer sales more than 15%. The brands marketed towards the every (wo)man have prices that are very low from the start, and often go on clearance. One of the most profitable strategies, however, is to price every wo(man) products like more expensive brands to seem prestigious, but then offer major sales so people feel like they're getting the deal.

Sweet story broseph. I wasn't saying that washu was really prestigious, and schools aren't "priced" with any relationship to its quality.

WashU is what it is, and it makes sense for a lot of people - especially with a large scholarship.