Vanderbilt v. ASU Forum

[rdreiley1]

After all the offers and applications, it has come down to this: ASU or Vanderbilt. I have little savings, so anything extra on tuition is going to be loan city.

I live in Phoenix about 20 minutes from ASU already. I'm a native and don't particularly want to stay/practice in AZ, but I have a girlfriend who wouldn't have to leave her job if she stayed and I could keep the rental home I am in. ASU offered me $20k/year, bringing tuition to about 23k for all 3 years.

Vanderbilt offered me 30k/year with a 5k first summer dean's award that can be applied to tuition if I want. That would bring their tuition costs to around 63k, not including moving costs and the girlfriend(soon to be fiancé) needing a new job.

I am leaning towards firm work(not necessarily BigLaw, but I do enjoy higher income...), with focuses mainly in healthcare, securities, or criminal(got my undergrad in criminal justice) and have business(non-law) connections in California.

Any input to this decision? Is the difference between #25 and #16 that substantial? Anything one can say would be helpful. I had 167LSAT and 3.92GPA. Thank you in advance!

[Vandy2bforrealz]

Try as hard as possible to negotiate with ASU. Vandy probably won't budge but you may be able to to bump up ASU close to a full scholarship.

[Good Guy Gaud]

If you don't want to stay in AZ or practice there post-grad, it's going to be hard to justify going there. The cost is right, though. What's the draw to Vandy? If your options are basically practicing in AZ/Cal, I don't see how Vandy fits into the equation.

(is ASU grad)

[fliptrip]

Well seems you have two options:

1. Try to get ASU as cheaply as possible and go there planning to stay in Phoenix, where you don't want to be.

2. Retake the LSAT and pair your great GPA with an LSAT that will allow you to attend a school that can really give you some geographic flexibility.

Vanderbilt doesn't make any sense for you.

[rdreiley1]

If you don't want to stay in AZ or practice there post-grad, it's going to be hard to justify going there. The cost is right, though. What's the draw to Vandy? If your options are basically practicing in AZ/Cal, I don't see how Vandy fits into the equation.

(is ASU grad)

Honestly the scope of their(Vandy) programs, the reputation/ranking, job stats, and the change of scenery are all big draws. I got my undergrad at ASU, but ASU early on didn't really seem to care about their admissions and treated it very loosely, both with their law school fair and their handling of the application. But nothing in specific is drawing me to Tennessee.

I am afraid that ASU's name, as I have heard, isn't nearly as strong outside of AZ while other top 30 schools don't necessarily have that problem.

[Good Guy Gaud]

If you don't want to stay in AZ or practice there post-grad, it's going to be hard to justify going there. The cost is right, though. What's the draw to Vandy? If your options are basically practicing in AZ/Cal, I don't see how Vandy fits into the equation.

(is ASU grad)

Honestly the scope of their(Vandy) programs, the reputation/ranking, job stats, and the change of scenery are all big draws. I got my undergrad at ASU, but ASU early on didn't really seem to care about their admissions and treated it very loosely, both with their law school fair and their handling of the application. But nothing in specific is drawing me to Tennessee.

I am afraid that ASU's name, as I have heard, isn't nearly as strong outside of AZ while other top 30 schools don't necessarily have that problem.

I think fliptrip's advice is pretty strong.

ASU is the right answer if you want to end up in AZ. If you want to stay in AZ, your best bet is to try to negotiate a better deal. Sure, it's possible to get out of the state but it will be very difficult without strong ties (and even then it won't be easy). Vandy has a good ranking but I'm not sure how strong they are outside of their lay prestige. I doubt they have the national pull that one might think they would have.

Going back to fliptrip's suggestion, is there any reason you cannot retake? A 170+ would really put you in another ball park when it comes to opportunity. Did you apply to any T14s? I would think some of them may bite with your stats (Cornell).

[BillClinton Jr]

If you don't want to work in Arizon ASU doesn't seem to make sense. You do have an amazing GPA so retaking for a few more points and better options in school choices might be a good move. Vandy is a solid school but if you don't have any real desire to work in Tennessee/Nashville after you graduate then it's not a great choice. Granted, Vandy does give you some geographic range if you have the grades (not a guarantee). Sounds like a retake for better options might be the best option.

[BillClinton Jr]

Well seems you have two options:

1. Try to get ASU as cheaply as possible and go there planning to stay in Phoenix, where you don't want to be.

2. Retake the LSAT and pair your great GPA with an LSAT that will allow you to attend a school that can really give you some geographic flexibility.

Vanderbilt doesn't make any sense for you.

+1

[MarkfromWI]

Honestly the scope of their(Vandy) programs, the reputation/ranking, job stats, and the change of scenery are all big draws. I got my undergrad at ASU, but ASU early on didn't really seem to care about their admissions and treated it very loosely, both with their law school fair and their handling of the application. But nothing in specific is drawing me to Tennessee.

I am afraid that ASU's name, as I have heard, isn't nearly as strong outside of AZ while other top 30 schools don't necessarily have that problem.

Honestly, outside the T14 I think most schools are a lot more regional than you might think. For example, UT-Austin is a great law school, but if you're trying to get a job in Chicago, someone in the top 10% at UT probably won't have any advantage over top 10% at UIUC despite UT's higher rank. U of Iowa is ranked 22, but if you wanted a job in Colorado, you'd be better off at UC-Boulder (40) or Denver (67).

[rdreiley1]

As many have proposed retaking the LSAT, I don't feel that would be wise. I took it twice last year(160 and 167) with my highest ever practice score being 167. While there is a slight possibility of doing better, I don't feel the time or taking myself out of cycle another year is worth it. I don't want to be turning 30 on my first day of 1L.

As I would more likely prefer to live in California, and have the 25k offer from USC already, would it be worthwhile to negotiate with them instead? I am wary of USC as their tuition is tremendously expensive and their cost of living is a kick in the nuts.

[Jay2716]

I know people hate hearing "retake," but your options really don't match with your goals. If you are an AZ native, went to ASU for undergrad, and go there for law school, out of state firms will view you as an enormous flight risk.

You are going to have a very difficult time getting to California from Vandy without ties. CA is one of the most competitive states in the country to land a job in. Depending on your career goals, you should be shooting for a good school in CA for cheap (preferably USC/UCLA) or a T14 at a cost you can stomach. It's not easy to land a job outside of your home market unless you have the grades/school combo for major market biglaw.

If you don't want to stay in Phoenix, I would definitely retake the LSAT and apply again next cycle.

Also, remember that a year seems like a lot now, but it's nothing when compared to a 20-30 year-long career. There will also be plenty of people who are 30+ on their first day of 1L.

[Tiago Splitter]

As many have proposed retaking the LSAT, I don't feel that would be wise. I took it twice last year(160 and 167) with my highest ever practice score being 167. While there is a slight possibility of doing better, I don't feel the time or taking myself out of cycle another year is worth it. I don't want to be turning 30 on my first day of 1L.

As I would more likely prefer to live in California, and have the 25k offer from USC already, would it be worthwhile to negotiate with them instead? I am wary of USC as their tuition is tremendously expensive and their cost of living is a kick in the nuts.

With your numbers you should be getting pretty close to a full ride or whatever the max is that USC and UCLA offer. If you can get that then either of those would be a fine option.

[hairbear7]

People with similar numbers have received multiple T-14 acceptances with scholarships. Do you have a C&F problem or something?

[rdreiley1]

People with similar numbers have received multiple T-14 acceptances with scholarships. Do you have a C&F problem or something?

I got a speeding ticket a couple of years ago and my LoRs were professional/non-academic. Beyond that I don't know

[hairbear7]

People with similar numbers have received multiple T-14 acceptances with scholarships. Do you have a C&F problem or something?

I got a speeding ticket a couple of years ago and my LoRs were professional/non-academic. Beyond that I don't know

Speeding ticket doesn't matter, and you should have tried to get at least 1 academic LOR but that shouldn't be this limiting. Did you apply to the T-14? No Berkeley or UCLA offers? And was your USC offer 25k/year?

[fliptrip]

Speeding ticket doesn't matter, and you should have tried to get at least 1 academic LOR but that shouldn't be this limiting. Did you apply to the T-14? No Berkeley or UCLA offers? And was your USC offer 25k/year?

This is the question...where did you apply, OP?

[rdreiley1]

People with similar numbers have received multiple T-14 acceptances with scholarships. Do you have a C&F problem or something?

I got a speeding ticket a couple of years ago and my LoRs were professional/non-academic. Beyond that I don't know

Speeding ticket doesn't matter, and you should have tried to get at least 1 academic LOR but that shouldn't be this limiting. Did you apply to the T-14? No Berkeley or UCLA offers? And was your USC offer 25k/year?

I have been out of school for a few years and was never close to any professors, so educational LoR wasn't viable.

ASU- (negotiated to) 20/yr
UofA- Full Ride
Boston U- Accepted; awaiting offer packet(got the call today)
UTex Austin- Accepted, awaiting offer
Georgetown- Preferred Waitlist as of 3/18
William and Mary- 20/year
Vandy- 30/year with 5k dean award
USC- 25/year(I do not know why I didn't go UCLA as well. That decision was just stupid)
Minnesota- 28/year
UCol Boulder- 20/10/10
University Illinois- Cant remember the offer offhand

Avoided NY schools mainly due to cost of living, and avoided T-14 because of confidence I guess in getting an offer and I also thought applying to too many places was seen as a negative. All schools accepted except for GTown

[Good Guy Gaud]

You should continue to work and postpone law school for another year. Retake and apply T14. The only negative with applying to so many schools is that it may cost you money. The schools aren't going to care.

Good luck!

[fliptrip]

I have been out of school for a few years and was never close to any professors, so educational LoR wasn't viable.

ASU- (negotiated to) 20/yr
UofA- Full Ride
Boston U- Accepted; awaiting offer packet(got the call today)
UTex Austin- Accepted, awaiting offer
Georgetown- Preferred Waitlist as of 3/18
William and Mary- 20/year
Vandy- 30/year with 5k dean award
USC- 25/year(I do not know why I didn't go UCLA as well. That decision was just stupid)
Minnesota- 28/year
UCol Boulder- 20/10/10
University Illinois- Cant remember the offer offhand

Avoided NY schools mainly due to cost of living, and avoided T-14 because of confidence I guess in getting an offer and I also thought applying to too many places was seen as a negative. All schools accepted except for GTown

Yeah, your school list is far from optimal, as you've already noted. If Texas came through at full scholarship and you were okay living in Texas, that's not a bad outcome.

30 is older, not old for law school. Just retaking the cycle with a better thought out school list would yield you better results. For instance, Berkeley is definitely worth a shot for you. They love high GPAs! And honestly, dude, you're only 1-2 LSAT points away from Stanford being a possibility. UCLA should love you too...there is a clutch of schools who really love those high GPAs (Stanford, Chicago, Berkeley, UCLA being among them.)

[hairbear7]

You absolutely need to reapply. You can get serious money from USC/UCLA and good money from the lower-T14.

Don't rush into law school just because you feel old. You can literally "make" a hundred thousand dollars in scholarship money just from reapplying (and using acceptances/more scholarships to negotiate with other schools) and can increase your employment prospects and geographic flexibility tremendously by getting into better schools.

[rdreiley1]

You absolutely need to reapply. You can get serious money from USC/UCLA and good money from the lower-T14.

Don't rush into law school just because you feel old. You can literally "make" a hundred thousand dollars in scholarship money just from reapplying (and using acceptances/more scholarships to negotiate with other schools) and can increase your employment prospects and geographic flexibility tremendously by getting into better schools.

Thank you. I don't want to reapply, but definitely going to negotiate with USC(today actually). If they can't award 45k or more/year its not worth the move against ASU

[BigZuck]

You goofed on this application cycle. You just made mistakes in terms of where you applied (and especially where you didn't apply). It's ok but you've got to do a do-over here and have a proper application cycle. And in the process, might as well prep for June and try to squeeze out some more points.

You made a mistake, that's fine, no big deal. But don't just double down, own up to the mistake and correct it.

Even still, as it stands your offers should be much better than this. For example, people get full rides at Minnesota with lesser numbers. It seems like something went wrong, you've got to figure that out and correct it.