Chapman Law Forum

[luckboxr]

-I'm embarrassed to say I'm considering Chapman Law; they offered me a 70% merit based scholarship, which is renewable each semester but has a 2.9 GPA stipulation. (Why is Chapman Law so infamous on these boards anyway? Why do so many prefer Loyola over Chapman? I suppose it's the lesser of two evils? Or is it their scholarship stipulations?) I've also applied to Loyola, USD, Pepperdine, and USF (just to see if I can get a full ride). I think my goal at this point is to minimize debt, unless I retake and get a better score.
-I'm assuming Chapman would be the cheapest because I live 25 mins away from the school, but I still have not received any scholarship info
-I will have to take out loans with possibly some assistance from my father, but I'm not counting on it.
-I live in Irvine, right next to UCI, but I didn't bother applying because I knew I totally missed the mark for the LSAT. My father is a very successful real estate agent in Irvine. I also have strong family ties in LA; my uncle owns an aerospace manufacturing business with insane connections to the Armenian-American community.
-I'm very interested in employment law, litigation law, securities & corporate law, & real estate law (I worked as a real estate assistant for 7+ years, but I never got my license because my goal has always been law school-very shitty plan in hindsight); I was also wondering about health law, but it seems to be a very niche specialization.
-156/3.03
-Twice; I cancelled once. I'm planning on retaking the LSAT in June because I know I can do better. On practice tests I was scoring around the 163-159 range, so I guess the 156 isn't too abnormal. Although, I think I might have misbubbled a large portion of the logic game section (that 3rd game was my time-sink game), but because it was the February LSAT, I'm not sure. Also, the night before the test, I had gotten only 2 or 3 hours of sleep-I cancelled my 1st score because the same thing happened the night before the test, and I felt it greatly affected my performance. I tried experimenting with melotnoin before my next sitting, and it seemed to work, but then came the night before the lsat and it did almost nothing.

Anyway, I know this isn't looking good, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Updated Chapman offer.

[longhornlaw]

I went to Chapman, so maybe I can help.

Bottom line is, you want to get a job when you graduate from law school. And you preferably want to get a job doing something you want to do, rather than "oh shit, I need a job so that I can pay my loans and eat."

I graduated in the top 1/3 of my class and had a full ride. I had a JD-advantage job coming out of law school, but I've since moved from CA and have a firm job. A few of my friends had gigs with the DA. If you had family connections to a law firm, you were pretty set. If you were in the top 10%, you were pretty set. Outside of those areas though, you are going to have to hustle to get a job. The CSO does have good hook ups for externships/summer gigs (Blizzard, the Angels, First American, and some firms in the area), but only 1, maybe 2 people are going to get a big firm job. My roommate was the valedictorian and he went to interviews with some of the big firms in LA and they had never even heard of Chapman. Keep that in mind.

Here's what I'll say positively about Chapman. They are pretty generous with scholarships. They have made it a bit easier to keep your scholarship, as they've relaxed the GPA requirement to a 2.9. The first year curve, however, is a 2.8. Second and third year it's a 3.0. If you bust your ass your first year, you can keep your scholarship. If you party and don't study, well, several friends did that and lost their scholarships. The community was great there. The facilities were great, considering that the school is newer, and they're continuing to pump money into the school. You're on a university campus, so you get the gym and undergrad facilities that go with it. Orange is a nice area, so when you do have time, you can walk off campus and not worry about getting mugged. The competition teams do well. The bar prep program they run is second to none. Chapman definitely punches above its weight class on bar passage rate, which is something to look at when you consider the schools.

Negatives...well, there is that whole employment thing. Frankly, if you're busting your buns throughout school, taking externships/internships and making connections wherever possible, you can have a job locked up your second year. Just know that it is a risk. At this point, I don't know of anyone from my class (2014) that is unemployed, except for the 1 or 2 people who haven't passed the bar yet.

Think it over. Just be aware of the risks. Sounds like you have some good connections already...don't be afraid to use them.

[luckboxr]

Wow! Your post is very reassuring-maybe too reassuring. Maybe I'm too impressionable, but your optimism has changed my mood and outlook a bit. Thank you very much for your candor. If you don't mind me asking, what were your numbers?

[unsweetened]

FWIW, I applied to Chapman in 2015. Orange is nice and it probably not a bad option if you have a full ride and want to stay in OC. Outside of OC, there's not much brand recognition. It sounds like you are pretty well connected in the area - networking will really help in getting a job.

I ended up getting LSAT help from a reputable tutor in Irvine and it brought my LSAT score up by 9 or so points from where I was on my diagnostic, mostly in logic games. PM me if you care for specifics. It's far less work to bring up your LSAT score than it is to finish in the top 10% of your class and LSAT scores are less of a completely subjective crap shoot than 1L grades, so do everything you possibly can to bring up your LSAT score and retake.

[luckboxr]

Thank you for your input unsweetened. I used the logic games bible and 7sage for the logic games and it helped immensely-especially 7sage. In the beginning, I could finish 2 of the easy games on a timed pretest, but with high variability in accuracy. Eventually, after months and months of doing games untimed and eventually timed, I was able to finish the 3rd game timed with more consistent accuracy and have a little time left for the 4th. My first diagnostic was 142, so I improved vastly through self-study and a Testmasters prep-course. I'm open to the idea of trying a tutor, but I think the internet is the best tutor available for this test-I really love the Manhattan forums for logical reasoning and reading comp questions.

Also, because my initial diagnostic was so low, and I've already improved more than 10 points, it is reasonable to assume that I will begin to see diminishing-returns on my studying? I mean, have you heard of anyone going from a 142 to a 165+?

[pancakes3]

Wow! Your post is very reassuring-maybe too reassuring. Maybe I'm too impressionable, but your optimism has changed my mood and outlook a bit. Thank you very much for your candor. If you don't mind me asking, what were your numbers?

not a good sign that you found that post reassuring. sounds pretty depressing to me.

[luckboxr]

Wow! Your post is very reassuring-maybe too reassuring. Maybe I'm too impressionable, but your optimism has changed my mood and outlook a bit. Thank you very much for your candor. If you don't mind me asking, what were your numbers?

not a good sign that you found that post reassuring. sounds pretty depressing to me.

Yeah, compared to some other schools, I'm sure it sounds depressing, but I honestly thought it was a lot worse than how he described it. But I guess you're right, I seem be rationalizing my horrible situation.

[Nachoo2019]

-I'm embarrassed to say I'm considering Chapman Law (I got an acceptance email from them 2 weeks after applying), but only if I get a decent scholarship, which I know I'm not likely to get. (Why is Chapman Law so infamous on these boards anyway? Why do so many prefer Loyola over Chapman? I suppose it's the lesser of two evils? Or is it their scholarship stipulations?) I've also applied to Loyola, USD, Pepperdine, and USF (just to see if I can get a full ride). I think my goal at this point is to minimize debt, unless I retake and get a better score.
-I'm assuming Chapman would be the cheapest because I live 25 mins away from the school, but I still have not received any scholarship info
-I will have to take out loans with possibly some assistance from my father, but I'm not counting on it.
-I live in Irvine, right next to UCI, but I didn't bother applying because I knew I totally missed the mark for the LSAT. My father is a very successful real estate agent in Irvine. I also have strong family ties in LA; my uncle owns an aerospace manufacturing business with insane connections to the Armenian-American community.
-I'm very interested in employment law, litigation law, securities & corporate law, & real estate law (I worked as a real estate assistant for 7+ years, but I never got my license because my goal has always been law school-very shitty plan in hindsight); I was also wondering about health law, but it seems to be a very niche specialization.
-156/3.03
-Twice; I cancelled once. I'm planning on retaking the LSAT in June because I know I can do better. On practice tests I was scoring around the 163-159 range, so I guess the 156 isn't too abnormal. Although, I think I might have misbubbled a large portion of the logic game section (that 3rd game was my time-sink game), but because it was the February LSAT, I'm not sure. Also, the night before the test, I had gotten only 2 or 3 hours of sleep-I cancelled my 1st score because the same thing happened the night before the test, and I felt it greatly affected my performance. I tried experimenting with melotnoin before my next sitting, and it seemed to work, but then came the night before the lsat and it did almost nothing.

Anyway, I know this isn't looking good, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

1. scholarship stipulations suck
2. employment stats suck
3. Chapman grads compete with UCLA, USC, UCI, USD, Loyola, Pepperdine, UC Hastings, Stanford, and Berkley(Yes, people from NorCal eventually realize they want to be in SoCal)
4. I was at their scholars weekend this past weekend and spoke with three of the 3L student ambassadors (one claimed she was on law review and top 10%) and none of them had a job or even knew where they were going to end up in two months when they graduate.

Needless to say I will be withdrawing my 80% scholly so maybe the money will open up for you....

*Did not meant to be harsh, I guess I am still just bitter because I won't be going to school in Orange County

[pancakes3]

GPA stip > median is a dealbreaker.
Top third and not a lawyer is a MASSIVE dealbreaker.
Top 10% is "set" in the sense that they're guaranteed employment and not in the sense they're biglaw/clerkship-secure is horrific.
Valedictorian walking into interviews in his/her home market and getting blank stares is unfathomable.

Placing stock in that 2 years out, people find employment is not the right perspective. It's like saying "well the 127 hr guy hacked his arm off and he's still alive."

[luckboxr]

-I'm embarrassed to say I'm considering Chapman Law (I got an acceptance email from them 2 weeks after applying), but only if I get a decent scholarship, which I know I'm not likely to get. (Why is Chapman Law so infamous on these boards anyway? Why do so many prefer Loyola over Chapman? I suppose it's the lesser of two evils? Or is it their scholarship stipulations?) I've also applied to Loyola, USD, Pepperdine, and USF (just to see if I can get a full ride). I think my goal at this point is to minimize debt, unless I retake and get a better score.
-I'm assuming Chapman would be the cheapest because I live 25 mins away from the school, but I still have not received any scholarship info
-I will have to take out loans with possibly some assistance from my father, but I'm not counting on it.
-I live in Irvine, right next to UCI, but I didn't bother applying because I knew I totally missed the mark for the LSAT. My father is a very successful real estate agent in Irvine. I also have strong family ties in LA; my uncle owns an aerospace manufacturing business with insane connections to the Armenian-American community.
-I'm very interested in employment law, litigation law, securities & corporate law, & real estate law (I worked as a real estate assistant for 7+ years, but I never got my license because my goal has always been law school-very shitty plan in hindsight); I was also wondering about health law, but it seems to be a very niche specialization.
-156/3.03
-Twice; I cancelled once. I'm planning on retaking the LSAT in June because I know I can do better. On practice tests I was scoring around the 163-159 range, so I guess the 156 isn't too abnormal. Although, I think I might have misbubbled a large portion of the logic game section (that 3rd game was my time-sink game), but because it was the February LSAT, I'm not sure. Also, the night before the test, I had gotten only 2 or 3 hours of sleep-I cancelled my 1st score because the same thing happened the night before the test, and I felt it greatly affected my performance. I tried experimenting with melotnoin before my next sitting, and it seemed to work, but then came the night before the lsat and it did almost nothing.

Anyway, I know this isn't looking good, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

1. scholarship stipulations suck
2. employment stats suck
3. Chapman grads compete with UCLA, USC, UCI, USD, Loyola, Pepperdine, UC Hastings, Stanford, and Berkley(Yes, people from NorCal eventually realize they want to be in SoCal)
4. I was at their scholars weekend this past weekend and spoke with three of the 3L student ambassadors (one claimed she was on law review and top 10%) and none of them had a job or even knew where they were going to end up in two months when they graduate.

Needless to say I will be withdrawing my 80% scholly so maybe the money will open up for you....

*Did not meant to be harsh, I guess I am still just bitter because I won't be going to school in Orange County

Thank you so much for your candor. The truth is usually harsh. Great job scouting out the school at scholars weekend, very wise of you. You're a true gentlemen for telling me the truth about their graduating class. Actually, I was searching the history of Chapman Law, and back around 2001 the school was sued by many of its students for lying about accreditation and employment statistics. The school actually refunded the tuition of some of the students who sued in order to take the heat off. So I called their admissions people and asked if the school had ever been sued for lying to their applicants; unbelievably, they said no. What lying bastards, how can a law school lie to their potential students? It seems almost criminal. It's very ironic that some of the institutions that are suppose to train honest, ethical, and selfless professionals are managed by dishonest, greedy, and immoral charlatans. Makes you think about how flawed the system really is.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

[luckboxr]

GPA stip > median is a dealbreaker.
Top third and not a lawyer is a MASSIVE dealbreaker.
Top 10% is "set" in the sense that they're guaranteed employment and not in the sense they're biglaw/clerkship-secure is horrific.
Valedictorian walking into interviews in his/her home market and getting blank stares is unfathomable.

Placing stock in that 2 years out, people find employment is not the right perspective. It's like saying "well the 127 hr guy hacked his arm off and he's still alive."

You're absolutely right. I thought I was possibly investing in my future by going to this school, I guess it turns out that I'd be gambling with my future instead.

[jrass]

You want to take a big picture approach, and make sure you're valuing every factor equally. Jobs are definitely something to consider, but 3 years of your life is a long time. That's 75% of high school. Making sure you get JD-preferred offers or better out of law school is important, but so is making sure there's enough tables in the library, and that the cafeteria has a tater tots option so you're not stuck with french fries every day like a 3rd world country.