Underperformed numbers? NYU, Michigan, Penn, Duke, WUSTL... Forum

[RZ5646]

Details redacted.

[James.K.Polk]

I think your Penn and Michigan choices aren't bad per se, though I would expect more with your stats.

That said, you might be a late bloomer. I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago and/or Harvard picked you up, and I'd assume it's pretty likely you get off some WLs going forward (which I assume are Columbia/Stanford?).

I don't know much about reapplying (I can't imagine doing it, personally) but I'd give it another month before you make that decision.

[fliptrip]

With your stats, your choice should be HYS v. T14 for free. You're close on a couple of these schools, but you would very likely benefit from taking a year off and applying day 1 next year.

Take the year, get a job, try some new stuff. Law school will still be there for you next year.

[BillClinton Jr]

With your stats, your choice should be HYS v. T14 for free. You're close on a couple of these schools, but you would very likely benefit from taking a year off and applying day 1 next year.

Take the year, get a job, try some new stuff. Law school will still be there for you next year.

100% correct on this one.

[Otunga]

With your stats, your choice should be HYS v. T14 for free. You're close on a couple of these schools, but you would very likely benefit from taking a year off and applying day 1 next year.

Take the year, get a job, try some new stuff. Law school will still be there for you next year.

[KiltedKicker]

Can I ask how late you applied? I think that will give people a better idea of how much that really hurt you. I'm also curious if you think you got good recs, and what sort of work you would do during your year off?

It does certainly seem like you underperformed your numbers, though obviously I nor anyone else will be able to say for certain why. If timing was the issue, waiting definitely makes sense (especially if it's a productive year off). If it was something else, taking a year off still might be productive but your results may not change substantially. At the end of the day you have good options and I'm sure you're ready to get started, but I'd agree with the advice of Fliptrip, you have outstanding numbers and would probably perform much better applying in September/October next year.

Lastly, I'll give a plug for taking a year off to save up a little bit of money and take some time to relax a little bit before the grind that law school will be. It also gave me some clarity on the type of law I think I'll want to practice. Best of luck to you in making this decision!

[theconsigliere]

RZ and I have talked about this situation we're in a bit. I'm in almost the same situation except offered less at Michigan (which is RZ's largest offer) and I got $30k/year at Chicago and am waiting for an offer from Columbia but didn't get a named scholarship. Also waiting on a few schools. It seems the most common advice here is to take a year off. Do people really think that anything less than HYS or a T14 full ride is not worth it for someone with RZ's stats (or mine: 176/3.9)?

[lymenheimer]

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[Biglaw1990]

RZ and I have talked about this situation we're in a bit. I'm in almost the same situation except offered less at Michigan (which is RZ's largest offer) and I got $30k/year at Chicago and am waiting for an offer from Columbia but didn't get a named scholarship. Also waiting on a few schools. It seems the most common advice here is to take a year off. Do people really think that anything less than HYS or a T14 full ride is not worth it for someone with RZ's stats (or mine: 176/3.9)?

I do. RZ is seriously underperforming and should try to negotiate with current offers, and if all else fails, apply next cycle. A 4.00/175 should be competitive for a Hamilton and Rubinstein, and should be a lock for a Levy. Someone with a much lower LSAT score has received the Levy this cycle (you can PM for exact numbers), so it is odd that OP hasn't received it. I think RZ is going to get into HLS soon, so this might all be moot. But, yes, OP should not attend non-HYS schools at anything lower than a full scholarship. Perhaps the OP did not put a lot of effort into his or her personal statement? Or maybe applying late put him or her at a disadvantage.

[zozo1717]

RZ and I have talked about this situation we're in a bit. I'm in almost the same situation except offered less at Michigan (which is RZ's largest offer) and I got $30k/year at Chicago and am waiting for an offer from Columbia but didn't get a named scholarship. Also waiting on a few schools. It seems the most common advice here is to take a year off. Do people really think that anything less than HYS or a T14 full ride is not worth it for someone with RZ's stats (or mine: 176/3.9)?

I'm an 0L as well - so take with a grain of salt. Based on what I've heard from admissions officers, seems like the applicant pool is shifting to a majority of applicants who have had some experience outside of school. Not that work experience overcomes a huge stats difference, but if you're up against folks with similar numbers AND they have some work/life experience that could be the difference maker.

I would suggest taking a year, find a job/something interesting to do, hone your "Why X" essays/reasons for going to law school and apply early next cycle.

I feel like I had great outcomes with my stats (nowhere NEAR any of yours) by applying early and having some work experience - feel free to PM.

Good luck!

[ih8makingscreennames]

How late did you guys apply?

[Biglaw1990]

RZ and I have talked about this situation we're in a bit. I'm in almost the same situation except offered less at Michigan (which is RZ's largest offer) and I got $30k/year at Chicago and am waiting for an offer from Columbia but didn't get a named scholarship. Also waiting on a few schools. It seems the most common advice here is to take a year off. Do people really think that anything less than HYS or a T14 full ride is not worth it for someone with RZ's stats (or mine: 176/3.9)?

PM'd

[Biglaw1990]

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[Biglaw1990]

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION

PM'd

[WinterComing]

I say this to be helpful at the risk of coming off as a humble-braggard: My numbers are close to the same but slightly worse (174, 4.05), and I've got Ruby, Vandy, Levy, and Butler scholarship offers, plus one HYS admission so far. The difference in our outcomes might be because I got lucky, or it might be because of my somewhat unique work experience. In either case, waiting a year to improve your luck and increase your work experience might be a wise and financially beneficial move.

[RZ5646]

Can I ask how late you applied? I think that will give people a better idea of how much that really hurt you. I'm also curious if you think you got good recs, and what sort of work you would do during your year off?

It does certainly seem like you underperformed your numbers, though obviously I nor anyone else will be able to say for certain why. If timing was the issue, waiting definitely makes sense (especially if it's a productive year off). If it was something else, taking a year off still might be productive but your results may not change substantially. At the end of the day you have good options and I'm sure you're ready to get started, but I'd agree with the advice of Fliptrip, you have outstanding numbers and would probably perform much better applying in September/October next year.

Lastly, I'll give a plug for taking a year off to save up a little bit of money and take some time to relax a little bit before the grind that law school will be. It also gave me some clarity on the type of law I think I'll want to practice. Best of luck to you in making this decision!

I applied in January, so late, though not extremely late. I think my recs were good, but recs are confidential so you can never really tell. As for work during a gap year, it would probably be low paid white collar. Nothing impressive, but hopefully better than retail / food service.

[ih8makingscreennames]

Can I ask how late you applied? I think that will give people a better idea of how much that really hurt you. I'm also curious if you think you got good recs, and what sort of work you would do during your year off?

It does certainly seem like you underperformed your numbers, though obviously I nor anyone else will be able to say for certain why. If timing was the issue, waiting definitely makes sense (especially if it's a productive year off). If it was something else, taking a year off still might be productive but your results may not change substantially. At the end of the day you have good options and I'm sure you're ready to get started, but I'd agree with the advice of Fliptrip, you have outstanding numbers and would probably perform much better applying in September/October next year.

Lastly, I'll give a plug for taking a year off to save up a little bit of money and take some time to relax a little bit before the grind that law school will be. It also gave me some clarity on the type of law I think I'll want to practice. Best of luck to you in making this decision!

I applied in January, so late, though not extremely late. I think my recs were good, but recs are confidential so you can never really tell. As for work during a gap year, it would probably be low paid white collar. Nothing impressive, but hopefully better than retail / food service.

I think that if you decide to sit out, you should have the other components of your app evaluated.

[RZ5646]

I think that if you decide to sit out, you should have the other components of your app evaluated.

I'll certainly write new essays, but is there anything I can do to evaluate my LORs? I don't think that mine were bad, but how could you tell if they were?

[ih8makingscreennames]

I think that if you decide to sit out, you should have the other components of your app evaluated.

I'll certainly write new essays, but is there anything I can do to evaluate my LORs? I don't think that mine were bad, but how could you tell if they were?

I'll PM you

[RZ5646]

Bumping with this update: submitted negotiation requests.

[guynourmin]

I think that if you decide to sit out, you should have the other components of your app evaluated.

I'll certainly write new essays, but is there anything I can do to evaluate my LORs? I don't think that mine were bad, but how could you tell if they were?

You can talk to your letter writers. You have waived your right to go behind their back and get the letter from the school, you didn't say you'll never ask what they wrote. I would seriously consider reaching out and telling them you under-performed your numbers, are sitting the year out, and are evaluating every aspect of your application. You don't have to ask to see the letter, but ask to talk to them about what was written, at least.