NYU v. Columbia for PI? Forum

[obxt]

Hi TLS! Background-- I'm a few years out of school with solid PI experience and I plan on staying in PI for the long-term. I'm in at both Columbia and NYU and I'm hoping to get some opinions from this community on the relative merits of both. I attended both ASWs and my general impression was-- better professors for my specific field at Columbia, the clinic does more work I'm interested in, and although it's a smaller PI-focused community, it seems like there are as many opportunities insofar as fellowships/clinics/funding for PI work as there are at NYU, which means less competition for them. People generally seemed a lot more visibly stressed, which was weird. I liked the current students at NYU a lot more and they just generally seemed like happier people-- but it also seems like because way more people are into PI work, there's more competition for the opportunities that there are and the most attention from their career services etc. gets focused on RTKs, so as a potential non-Root, I worry about what that means in terms of the quality of advising for me.I've also generally just had more professors/clinical advisors get in touch with me from Columbia and they've really been selling it.

In terms of financial aid-- I have an invite for the Root, but that's obviously not a guarantee. If I got it, NYU would be the clear choice. If not, I'm not expecting much need based aid from either school.

It mostly breaks down to: NYU-- chiller atmosphere, cooler people, bigger PI community-- but potentially more competition for PI opportunities/not as great advising, VS. Columbia-- more stress-y atmosphere/people, better interest-specific professors, more opportunities for PI/less competition.

Any advice?

[GreenEggs]

First I'm really gonna push back on the CLS is more stress-y thing. I don't think it's any different from NYU, they're just better at keeping admitted students from seeing it. I wouldn't pick one or the other based on that criteria to be honest. Saying you'd rather live in east village is a better reason.

But to get to the actual question (assuming equal cost at both) - you say you have a few years of solid PI experience, is it already in the field you want to practice law in? I think if you can identify specific clinics/opportunities/professors in the area of law that you want to practice than pick the school that offers the most.

I can't really opine on the whole CLS is less competition with PI vs. NYU has a better support network, because I think for the most part it's really 99% the individual law student.

You can't go wrong with either choice, but law school is about career choices so pick the school you think will set you up best

[Skool]

I liked the current students at NYU a lot more and they just generally seemed like happier people-- but it also seems like because way more people are into PI work, there's more competition for the opportunities that there are and the most attention from their career services etc. gets focused on RTKs, so as a potential non-Root, I worry about what that means in terms of the quality of advising for me.

A word on the career advising stuff. I think this is a non-issue. The Roots have fantastic career advising, it's true. It's not just fantastic, but it's also given to them with built in programing. But there isn't a dedicated PILC counselor at NYU who spends 100% of their time working for Roots. The Root PILC counselor's door will always be open to you too (and she's really awesome and accomplished, by the way). And whether you're at CLS or NYU, you're going to have to put in a little bit of work to make sure you're getting the right advice and that you're on the right people's radars (not that it's hard). I just don't see either CLS or NYU public interest career services neglecting you. I haven't really used the clerkship advising office, so I don't know how that compares for regular students compared to roots, but I'd bet the same rules I described above apply to them.

Hopefully you'll win the scholarship so this is moot.

I am also skeptical about their being more competition for PI opportunities at NYU. Is this something you heard from NYU 2Ls and 3Ls or OCS people at CLS? As a 1L, there's not that much competition for internships, that's for sure. In my section alone, there are multiple people going to fancy Fed Defender offices around the country, international summer fellowships, and pretty much every legal aid organization in the city. I suspect it's more competitive when you start talking about paying post-grad positions, but even then, with our alumni network, the ford fellowships, our other institutional fellowships, our pretty good counseling for external fellowships, I suspect even non-root NYU students are taken care of in the end of the day.

You can't go wrong with either choice, but law school is about career choices so pick the school you think will set you up best

Right. I think this is mostly a coke vs. pepsi thing. However, I do think that NYU has probably reached some kind of tipping point over the years because of the hype and the Roots that really makes our foundational public interest community probably a bit cooler than CLS's. That can make a difference for peer mentoring and probably also carries over to stronger PI alumni networks. And our current public interest community extends beyond roots too. This year some non-roots established a student run bail fund, which is pretty cool. But i go to Nyu so maybe a few grains of salt are warranted.

Of the concerns you've identified, following your niche seems like the most valid. I would just reach out to the most relevant people at NYU to make sure CLS really is where it's at. But you'll be fine either way. Good luck.

[obxt]

Thank you! This is really helpful.