Weirddd Cycle/URM Forum

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[GreekOmega12]

Go to Chicago.

[fliptrip]

Right now, the only thing that would make sense cost wise would be Chicago, but I wouldn't like it at all. You should get on them big time and beg them for more cash. You will be able to snag biglaw out of Chicago and you will have to suffer for a spell in biglaw before you can exit out, so brace yourself for that, but you will not ruin your life. If you can beg and plead and whine to get you up to $60k-$90k off, that would make Chicago a good outcome.

If Cornell would come in for you at a reasonable cost, like $100k+ off, that would be great.

As I said, I would not deal with any of your other schools at current prices.

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[DeanStrangJr]

Right now, the only thing that would make sense cost wise would be Chicago, but I wouldn't like it at all. You should get on them big time and beg them for more cash. You will be able to snag biglaw out of Chicago and you will have to suffer for a spell in biglaw before you can exit out, so brace yourself for that, but you will not ruin your life. If you can beg and plead and whine to get you up to $60k-$90k off, that would make Chicago a good outcome.

If Cornell would come in for you at a reasonable cost, like $100k+ off, that would be great.

As I said, I would not deal with any of your other schools at current prices.

Trust.. I will be on my knees (literally if need be) begging them to try and get that cost down. Just game planning right now. Will probably start letting emails and calls fly by next week.

Thank you for your input!

I'm weighing similar offers right now.

I'd like to hear what you decide and I'll do the same!

[gamerish]

Career Goals: Big Law first, then go into Sports/Entertainment in some (maybe legal/maybe not) capacity but I really am not sure what I am truly interested in at this point. I'm not opposed to the idea of taking out a lot of loans, it just freaking blows

I think this is important. If you're gonna saddle yourself with over $250,000 in debt just to work for 3-5 years at a job you probably won't like to get back to a net worth of $0 and then not be a lawyer, why go to law school in the first place?

[OtterLaw]

I'm trying to figure out how your COA for UVA is so high even at sticker. Out the ASW today the financial aid office did a rundown of the budget for three years and it wasn't even close to $309K. It was more like $250K and that was without factoring in summer employment (which could be big bucks depending on what you do). But good luck on your decision.

[fliptrip]

I'm trying to figure out how your COA for UVA is so high even at sticker. Out the ASW today the financial aid office did a rundown of the budget for three years and it wasn't even close to $309K. It was more like $250K and that was without factoring in summer employment (which could be big bucks depending on what you do). But good luck on your decision.

This is the dirtiest trick financial aid offices play, navy, they do not account for loan fees or interest capitalization while you are in school. Even though your 3 year nominal COA at UVA is $256,985, the actual amount of money you will owe at repayment is $307,491. That's $50,000 of real money you owe that they conveniently forget to tell incoming students about.

Let's keep going. If you were to borrow that much money, your monthly payment will be more than $3,600 on a 10 year am. That is more than 27% of your pre-tax biglaw income your first year and if you somehow, someway manage to make it 4 years in biglaw servicing the debt at that $3,600 figure and you devote every dime of your salary increases and your bonuses to paying your loans, you will still owe $70,000! And making it 4 whole years in biglaw is a very very big if.

[Tiago Splitter]

I'm trying to figure out how your COA for UVA is so high even at sticker. Out the ASW today the financial aid office did a rundown of the budget for three years and it wasn't even close to $309K. It was more like $250K and that was without factoring in summer employment (which could be big bucks depending on what you do). But good luck on your decision.

Did they factor in tuition increases, origination fees, interest and the fact that you won't start paying the loans back until several months after graduating?

[SD619]

I have a strangely similar cycle

Chicago- $15k
Berkeley- to be determined
Georgetown- Alternate

UCLA- 67.5k
Vandy- 95k
Wash U- 135k
Emory- 111k


I also have no clue what to do because Chicago with only 15k for me would be bad..

[stretchedtoothin]

Hey guys,

So my cycle is pretty much all but done. I'll try and be brief. Help appreciated!

First, as far as a retake goes, it probably won't be happening. 1. I Already didn't go last year to retake and seriously, seriously, don't want to skip another whole year for it. 2. and more importantly, I think I performed at around my score band. Could I have scored a few points higher (or lower) depending on the day? Probably. but looking at it realistically, I studied immensely and I was PTing around there anyway (with a couple outliers sprinkled in there of course.) IMHO, I don't think I'd benefit much (if at all) from a retake.

My cycle has been pretty weird in the sense that I got into a T4, then I kinda have this huge gap in the middle schools because I got WL'd at a bunch of 'em and got into some lower schools. Essentially, there isn't a happy medium for me. Scholarship money has been pretty weird, too. Broken down below.

I haven’t negotiated at all, by the way. I plan to craft emails and start sending them out on Monday (I was waiting on Gtown) so I can maybe squeeze a bit more from some of these schools (with the exception of Chicago). Either way, the hell am I supposed to do now? trade school?

$45K from Chicago COA: 259K

$0 from UVA COA: Fucked. (308K)

Georgetown – “Alternate” ?? Whatever that means. Got a feeler email that I’d be considered for a scholarship but it got pushed to them letting me know at the end of April.

$95K from Vanderbilt COA: $175K

$105K from WUSTL COA: $152K

$90K from USC COA: $206K

$75K from William & Mary COA: $122K

WL
UPenn
NYU (probably)
Cornell (interviewed recently/should get an update soon)


Career Goals: Big Law first, then go into Sports/Entertainment in some (maybe legal/maybe not) capacity but I really am not sure what I am truly interested in at this point. I'm not opposed to the idea of taking out a lot of loans, it just freaking blows

If you're going to go to law school this year, go with Chicago, no doubt. Just please understand that $259k is real money and you will almost certainly regret not retaking and/or doing something else with your life 8 years from now.

But if you're willing to bet on yourself and your happiness (which many people do), you should almost certainly go to Chicago right now.

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[stretchedtoothin]

If you're leaving UChi with $250k in debt, your net worth will almost certainly be $0 or in the negatives after four years of biglaw.

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[stretchedtoothin]

If you're going to go to law school this year, go with Chicago, no doubt. Just please understand that $259k is real money and you will almost certainly regret not retaking and/or doing something else with your life 8 years from now.

But if you're willing to bet on yourself and your happiness (which many people do), you should almost certainly go to Chicago right now.

I understand. I mean, you don't really understand until you see it but I get it. I don't know if I'd regret not doing something else with my life. I've worked in the big law setting, I understand the hours, xyz, [inset complaint]. Not that these aren't legitimate, they are, but I have perspective on it and understand it. Hopefully I can get them to throw a bit more cash my way. We'll see.

You don't understand the hours because you're basically basically just the support staff at whatever major law firm you work at. You put in your 8-10 hours a day (with overtime), and then you go home and forget about your job except in the rarest of occassions. You haven't experienced logging into Citrix from your apartment for hours each night, and you haven't experienced the strong pressure of the billable hour. If you're a paralegal/mail-runner, I don't think your observations really reflect the reality of biglaw.

You should also look up the Georgetown law calculator. Use that in conjunction with paycheckcity.com, and you'll get a really good idea of why you're entirely wrong about having decent cash after 3-5 years and $250k debt.

If you have rich parents--even if they're not supporting you--or a nice trust or grandparents or savings account, that would help. But if you're socio-economically disadvantaged, as many URMs are, I'd urge you to reconsider going to any of these schools at the prices you've listed. You won't have a safety net to pay these loans back, and many of the people on TLS (or who you'll be attending school with) are paying "sticker" in name only because of familial help--either with cost of living or the tuition itself.

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[T14orTradeSchool]

.

[stretchedtoothin]

Lol.

I mean I don't have the perspective of an associate. Idk what you want me to do lol I've worked incredibly long hours before, I wouldn't say as much as first years. I do, for the most part, forget about my job once I leave but why shouldn't I? I don't get paid anywhere close to worry about those things. An associate does, though. I never said my job reflects that of an associate or comes close, I said I've seen the hours associates work and I've talked to numerous associates.. that's the best perspective I can get. I have worked my fair share of long hours but again, idk what you want lol it's the best I got.

All I'm saying is that I hope you're not risking $260,000 in non-dischargeable education debt on a job that you only have a shallow understanding of. You see associates work . . . at work. That's it. Your works stops once you clock out each day. An associate is always on the clock. Just remember that the job isn't what you may think it is.

I've worked in the big law setting, I understand the hours, xyz, [inset complaint]. Not that these aren't legitimate, they are, but I have perspective on it and understand it.

Anyway, good luck OP! Follow your dreams!

[T14orTradeSchool]

.