UVA No Money vs. GULC ($$$) Forum

[jlopez]

Please help. I have no idea what to do with my life

I did not get a single dollar from UVA, and they wont negotiate, but Georgetown offered me about 75%. Any input is welcome!

[lymenheimer]

You should read the stickied thread in this sub and respond the all the questions. We have no idea your goals or anything with this info...

[jlopez]

My bad, was overwhelmed with anxiety while posting this.

I'm considering GULC and UVA. I would like to go into biglaw and am not super interested in Public Interest.

When it comes down to it, I would be paying (including all living expenses etc etc) $134,000 more at UVA over the span of 10 years of debt repayment. I have some money saved up but not enough, so I would be taking out loans at both schools.

I want to work in DC, NYC, or London in some sort of international law firm.

[fliptrip]

You should not attend any school at sticker, OP.

I don't have your exact COA, but GULC with that much of a discount could be acceptable, but don't bet on this London law firm thing.

[jlopez]

You should not attend any school at sticker, OP.

I don't have your exact COA, but GULC with that much of a discount could be acceptable, but don't bet on this London law firm thing.

Not betting on London, just a dream to work overseas. You don't think the job placement at UVA would outweigh the cheaper COA at Georgetown?

[gamerish]

I'd still try to negotiate more from both parties. If you're not gonna attend UVA with no money anyway (which you shouldn't, though I am heavily biased against sticker debt) there's no harm in sending them an e-mail saying "I've got 75% from GTown, if you can't offer me any money at all, I'll have no choice but to withdraw etc, etc." I imagine you've applied to more than these two schools so, in getting more from GTown, I'd leverage the UVA offer if you haven't already and whatever other significant acceptances and/or scholarships you have (which would certainly be helpful for the people ITT to know). Then take whatever GTown gives you, if anything, back to those schools and do the dance again.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

dont go to any law school at sticker. take the money at GULC and dont look back. 75% off at GULC is a decent outcome. but before you deposit at GULC do your ABSOLUTE best to leverage w/e acceptances you have (whether it's a school ranked higher than GULC or below but still close like WUSTL/UCLA/USC/Vandy type) to get more money out of GULC.

also, go to UVA and say yo i got 75% off at GULC. see what they offer. if they give you some money, then use that as leverage to get more out of GULC.

you will literally NEVER see those admissions people again once you enter law school. so dont feel bad or sorry. be firm and negotiate. this is literally the only time you will have to negotiate your financial future like this.

[jlopez]

I'd still try to negotiate more from both parties. If you're not gonna attend UVA with no money anyway (which you shouldn't, though I am heavily biased against sticker debt) there's no harm in sending them an e-mail saying "I've got 75% from GTown, if you can't offer me any money at all, I'll have no choice but to withdraw etc, etc." I imagine you've applied to more than these two schools so, in getting more from GTown, I'd leverage the UVA offer if you haven't already and whatever other significant acceptances and/or scholarships you have (which would certainly be helpful for the people ITT to know). Then take whatever GTown gives you, if anything, back to those schools and do the dance again.

I spoke with financial aid at UVA and pretty much got the answer that they are not negotiating this year. It just worries me that I wont get a good enough job to pay off GULC debt versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort). I'll hear from Duke financial aid soon, so I'll use that to leverage at GULC and see what they can do.

[fliptrip]

You should not attend any school at sticker, OP.

I don't have your exact COA, but GULC with that much of a discount could be acceptable, but don't bet on this London law firm thing.

Not betting on London, just a dream to work overseas. You don't think the job placement at UVA would outweigh the cheaper COA at Georgetown?

Absolutely not. If you can somehow use GULC to get Duke to match, I'd definitely take Duke at 75% off.

[Generally]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

[Tls2016]

I'd still try to negotiate more from both parties. If you're not gonna attend UVA with no money anyway (which you shouldn't, though I am heavily biased against sticker debt) there's no harm in sending them an e-mail saying "I've got 75% from GTown, if you can't offer me any money at all, I'll have no choice but to withdraw etc, etc." I imagine you've applied to more than these two schools so, in getting more from GTown, I'd leverage the UVA offer if you haven't already and whatever other significant acceptances and/or scholarships you have (which would certainly be helpful for the people ITT to know). Then take whatever GTown gives you, if anything, back to those schools and do the dance again.

U Va has drawn a hard line against negotiating. According to Spivey they gave out lots of Darrows and have a number of deferrals from over enrolling last year.

[Tls2016]

You should not attend any school at sticker, OP.

I don't have your exact COA, but GULC with that much of a discount could be acceptable, but don't bet on this London law firm thing.

Also wouldn't bet on DC.

[Tls2016]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

Where did you get this idea of being guaranteed a job from UVA with less effort? Did you read it somewhere?

[jlopez]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

Where did you get this idea of being guaranteed a job from UVA with less effort? Did you read it somewhere?

What I mean is, it's pretty much common knowledge that UVA has better job prospects, versus at GULC you really need to be in the top of the class to get the same opportunities you might get in the middle of the class at UVA. I've heard it from dozens of people.

[jlopez]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

UVA has such a low percentage of unemployment, I think sub 3%. Doesn't that speak a little to an *almost* job guarantee? Or am I off-base?

[Generally]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

UVA has such a low percentage of unemployment, I think sub 3%. Doesn't that speak a little to an *almost* job guarantee? Or am I off-base?

If you are going at sticker you need big law, and 97% of people do not get big law from UVA. That overall employment number includes everything, like being hired by the school because you couldn't get a job.

[lymenheimer]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

UVA has such a low percentage of unemployment, I think sub 3%. Doesn't that speak a little to an *almost* job guarantee? Or am I off-base?

If you are going at sticker you need big law, and 97% of people do not get is not the percent of people getting big law from UVA. That overall employment number includes everything, like being hired by the school because you couldn't get a job.

clarifiedtfy

[fliptrip]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

UVA has such a low percentage of unemployment, I think sub 3%. Doesn't that speak a little to an *almost* job guarantee? Or am I off-base?

If you are going at sticker you need big law, and 97% of people do not get is not the percent of people getting big law from UVA. That overall employment number includes everything, like being hired by the school because you couldn't get a job.

clarifiedtfy

Yeah, Gen...I'm sure you just made a mistake here. OP, UVA's biglaw + clerkship (often leads to biglaw) percentage is 68%. If you assume that 80% of their class actually pursued biglaw, that translates to a 85% chance of getting it. That 80% number is one I just made up though. I don't know what percentage of UVA folks are chasing biglaw.

[Generally]

versus I'm pretty much guaranteed a job at UVA (with less effort).

No you aren't. I wouldn't even say that if it was Columbia. UVA is not worth sticker. Many would argue no law school is, and some would argue HYS are. I don't know anyone with any sense saying mid to low t14 are worth sticker, especially when you have $$$ at Gtown. If there aren't any other decent offers and you are set on law school go to Gtown.

UVA has such a low percentage of unemployment, I think sub 3%. Doesn't that speak a little to an *almost* job guarantee? Or am I off-base?

If you are going at sticker you need big law, and 97% of people do not get is not the percent of people getting big law from UVA. That overall employment number includes everything, like being hired by the school because you couldn't get a job.

clarifiedtfy

Yeah, Gen...I'm sure you just made a mistake here. OP, UVA's biglaw + clerkship (often leads to biglaw) percentage is 68%. If you assume that 80% of their class actually pursued biglaw, that translates to a 85% chance of getting it. That 80% number is one I just made up though. I don't know what percentage of UVA folks are chasing biglaw.

And lets imagine you get big law so you can start paying down your second mortgage. How many years of big law pay will it take to pay it off and how long will you actually likely be working in big law? I think most people say around 3 years is average in big law.

[Tls2016]

http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/aba/2014employment.pdf

34 people are hired by the school.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/
So from the 94.3% subtract 9.8%

Then the students in biglaw over 100 attorneys is 52.4%
Not all these firms will pay market of $160,000.

[fliptrip]

Sticker debt service at UVA is absolutely staggering. A 10-year am on that debt is something north of $3000/month. Ideally you'll borrow at a level that you can reasonably service during the time you have the most disposable income (i.e. your stint in biglaw). But, as Generally points out, don't count on a long stay. If you make 3 years you'll be on the upper end of things.

Read this post: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=261392 and decide if you really want to be doing biglaw for an extended period of time.

[Generally]

Moral of this story, UVA at sticker is a very bad idea. Please don't do that.

[Tls2016]

Moral of this story, UVA at sticker is a very bad idea. Please don't do that.

Also please don't expect you are just going to get a biglaw job with doing "less work" from Virginia. That's just crazy talk.
Edit: if you are worried about demanding work, biglaw is not for you.

[jlopez]

Moral of this story, UVA at sticker is a very bad idea. Please don't do that.

Also please don't expect you are just going to get a biglaw job with doing "less work" from Virginia. That's just crazy talk.
Edit: if you are worried about demanding work, biglaw is not for you.

Not worried about demanding work, I already work 60 hours a week and go to school full time so I'm used to the hustle. (I realize biglaw is different, but my current job is definitely demanding). With COL + scholarship consideration, I'll be repaying about 1,100 a month in a standard 10 year repayment plan at GULC, or around 2,500 living modestly at UVA. Is $1,400 a month cheaper worth GULC, assuming I get $0 from Duke so no way to bargain that chip.

I realize you've basically answered this already, I'm just trying to conceptualize the debt in a smaller number.

[Generally]

Moral of this story, UVA at sticker is a very bad idea. Please don't do that.

Also please don't expect you are just going to get a biglaw job with doing "less work" from Virginia. That's just crazy talk.
Edit: if you are worried about demanding work, biglaw is not for you.

Not worried about demanding work, I already work 60 hours a week and go to school full time so I'm used to the hustle. (I realize biglaw is different, but my current job is definitely demanding). With COL + scholarship consideration, I'll be repaying about 1,100 a month in a standard 10 year repayment plan at GULC, or around 2,500 living modestly at UVA. Is $1,400 a month cheaper worth GULC, assuming I get $0 from Duke so no way to bargain that chip.

I realize you've basically answered this already, I'm just trying to conceptualize the debt in a smaller number.

Everyone agrees you shouldn't go to UVA over Gtown in this situation.You can keep breaking it down however you want, but it isn't going to change our advice. You seem like you maybe have your mind made up for UVA already though, so best of luck.