Berkeley vs. Georgetown Forum

[lays123]

I'm trying to decide between Berkeley and Georgetown (recently admitted to both, so I don't know what my scholarship offers, if any, are). I'm really interested in studying international law, and GULC seemed like a no-brainer until I came on TLS and saw all the hate. Berkeley doesn't offer nearly as many courses as GULC in international law. I'm interested in different subjects in international law - anti-corruption, asylum and refugee law, development - and Berkeley doesn't offer anything besides introductions to these subjects at best. But I'm worried about employment prospects... TLSers seem to think GULC is just terrible when it comes to employment and isn't worth the price... HELP??

[fliptrip]

I am pretty sure you're going to get a lot of questions about what exactly you mean by your interest in international law, so be ready. Also, it's really not possible to give you any advice until we know what your actual costs are. So, to beat the dead horse...

to get the best help, we're going to need:

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[lays123]

If I'm not offered any scholarships, I'll pretty much be financing everything with loans
Median LSAT at Georgetown, above median at Berkeley
I'm from the midwest, but don't really see myself practicing in the region.
I generally see myself working on the east coast. I gave a general idea of what aspects of international law I'm interested in - I don't see myself being a "human rights lawyer" or clerking at the ICC, but I would like a job with a government agency perhaps in development or governance in the "developing" world (I realize those are rare) or working with asylum seekers. It's still too soon to tell what exactly I want to do, but I would like to go to a school that will allow me to explore all my options in the classroom.

[Clearly]

Full gpa and lsat please.

[Jchance]

^sounds like you are leaning GULC, but if I was you financing things at sticker, gun to my head of course, I'd still pick Berk for more options later.

[lymenheimer]

What happened to your 3.62/174?

[fliptrip]

I would not attend either of these schools at sticker. No. Way.

GULC's sticker price COA is $318k. That is a staggering amount of debt. That's $2,400/month for 25 years to pay off. There is no way in the world that school is worth that much money. Berkeley's not much better at $305k.

[hangingtree]

If you're set on international work, perhaps Georgetown is marginally better. But this sort of work is notoriously hard to find, so I'd suggest doing extensive research on what sort of jobs are out there.

Taking your international law interest out of the equation, Georgetown does get a lot of hate on here and some of it at least is probably justified. While it ends up mattering little, Berkeley is in another tier; you will have slightly better opportunities coming out of there. That said, Georgetown will always be a top school that places well nationally.

Scholarship opportunities will change the calculus substantially. Negotiate with both. I'd be surprised if you didn't get a scholarship at Georgetown, and maybe even Berkeley.

And finally, on a personal level, really consider where you want to spend three years of your life. This is one of the most important factors in choosing a law school. The environments between the schools are quite different, and the cities are very different.

Good luck on your decision.

[Biglaw1990]

What happened to your 3.62/174?

LOL
Please tell me this isn't one of those "my brother and I share a TLS account" situations.

[worldtraveler]

I'm trying to decide between Berkeley and Georgetown (recently admitted to both, so I don't know what my scholarship offers, if any, are). I'm really interested in studying international law, and GULC seemed like a no-brainer until I came on TLS and saw all the hate. Berkeley doesn't offer nearly as many courses as GULC in international law. I'm interested in different subjects in international law - anti-corruption, asylum and refugee law, development - and Berkeley doesn't offer anything besides introductions to these subjects at best. But I'm worried about employment prospects... TLSers seem to think GULC is just terrible when it comes to employment and isn't worth the price... HELP??

Just how many international law courses do you think you have time to take in law school? You have 3 years, only 2 of which are for electives. Most people take at least a few bar courses like evidence or crim pro in those years, plus some kind of clinic. So that leaves about 3 semesters, so roughly 14-15 courses absolute max. Berkeley has at least 30 courses in IL. It's also rather useless to take super specialized tiny courses anyway.

[jbagelboy]

I'm trying to decide between Berkeley and Georgetown (recently admitted to both, so I don't know what my scholarship offers, if any, are). I'm really interested in studying international law, and GULC seemed like a no-brainer until I came on TLS and saw all the hate. Berkeley doesn't offer nearly as many courses as GULC in international law. I'm interested in different subjects in international law - anti-corruption, asylum and refugee law, development - and Berkeley doesn't offer anything besides introductions to these subjects at best. But I'm worried about employment prospects... TLSers seem to think GULC is just terrible when it comes to employment and isn't worth the price... HELP??

Just how many international law courses do you think you have time to take in law school? You have 3 years, only 2 of which are for electives. Most people take at least a few bar courses like evidence or crim pro in those years, plus some kind of clinic. So that leaves about 3 semesters, so roughly 14-15 courses absolute max. Berkeley has at least 30 courses in IL. It's also rather useless to take super specialized tiny courses anyway.

Also, my sense of the field is that Berkeley has a very reputable international law program with a deep historical bench (often cited along with Columbia and Yale as the best IL scholarship and faculty). So you certainly aren't *sacrificing* by going to Cal over GULC.

More importantly, international law academia doesn't really mean very much for you at this point; a reasonable outcome from both schools would be Lan Am cap markets at Milbank. That's about as "international" as you'll probably get.

[krads153]

Berkeley, except you shouldn't go to law school at all at these prices.....go be a nurse or something. Literally anything would be better than taking out these kinds of loans for law school.

[Redamon1]

You are misinformed. Geogetown's got nothing on Berkeley with regard to international law. Don't pick a school because it offers a few specialized courses that the other doesn't. There's no doubt in my mind that your career options out of Berkeley are better than at GU across the board, including for IL jobs.

[EzraFitz]

Completely anecdotally and FWIW, I was in the "international" section at GULC, and of the probably 20 people I know who truly deeply wanted to do "international law", 2 of them are still on that path. Everyone else either went OCI/Biglaw (probably 15 or more of them), is doing gov't internships with a goal of working there, or is floundering at the bottom of the class.