WUSTL vs. Vanderbilt Forum

[mjs289]

I need some help people!

3.92, 168, engineering major
Took LSAT 3 times already, so retake is no option. Already taking a gap year, so another gap year is not an option for me. Was hoping for a T14 with some money, but unfortunately none of them with a decent chance showed love:( Am still waiting for few, but based on how the cycle is going, seems like chance is very low.

Approximate COA, tuition+COL based on Standard 509 Reports. (Don't know about COL for Vandy, but based on what current students say, seems like COL of WUSTL is somewhat over-calculated.)
WashU: $68K (Full tuition) + Dean's Fellowship benefits including faculty and/or alumni mentorship, guaranteed a semester/summer research position etc.
Vandy: $10.5K ($12.5K scholarship)

I'm gonna wait until next week and see if any T14 by miracle or Emory gives an offer. While it seems unlikely, then I'll see if any school is willing to bump scholly offer or benefit package against other offers... at least worth a try.



My background & goal are...
Background:
- Have citizenship, but international; no regional ties anywhere whatsoever
- Non-EE, but have MS degree
- Parents say they will fund for law school, but obviously they will have to burn their retirement savings. I'm not happy with it, so money matters.

Goal:
- IP law, patent in particular. Plan to pass Patent Bar while in school.
- Preference in order: IP BL/big IP boutiques - IP department in (non-IP)BL - mid IP firms/boutiques - IP department in (non-IP)mid firms
- Transferring to Asia (primary reason for preferring BL; they are likely to have a branch in Asia). I'm aware that I'll need to work in the States for several years, and have no strong regional preference. Probably the only place I want to avoid is NY, but I'll bear it if it's the only place with a job.



Both are regional, and I'm aware they are relatively low in terms of BL placements. Vandy obviously places better based on their data, but they cost more as well. I can't tell if Vandy is worth $40k more for its better placement, especially because I'm planning to go for IP. It sounds like employment prospect is somewhat different for IP, but I have no idea how exactly..
Seems like major markets for IP are NY, CA, D.C., and Atlanta based on what I searched through. Both are probably not for CA. WashU can probably am NY or D.C., but Vandy will open Atlanta as well... I hope there were more IP firms in Chicago, which WashU has at least little more shots at, but oh well. With no geographical preference, I feel like WashU is financially the best option, but the job market is a bit of concern...

+It would be nice if I get a miraculous news from one of T14s I'm waiting, or get admission off of waitlist, but I'm not really willing to go for a sticker. Is there really a school that's worth a sticker for IP? I searched through top firm's associate lists and majority are not from T14 schools...

Any opinions/advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

[Tls2016]

If your parents are burning their retirement savings go to WUSTL.

I'm surprised the stats didn't get you any lower T 14 but I'm not an admission expert. Could there be something off with your application? Did you apply late?
What kind of engineering are you in?

[mjs289]

If your parents are burning their retirement savings go to WUSTL.

I'm surprised the stats didn't get you any lower T 14 but I'm not an admission expert. Could there be something off with your application? Did you apply late?
What kind of engineering are you in?

I too believe WUSTL is the most reasonable decision. I wanted to ask because 1) my parents are typical Asians who are somewhat obsessed with school's name value and feel like if I can get into BL, it's probably worth it since I'll be able to pay off in several years, and 2) I too am concerned about job placement. If Vandy has that much value, I'll be willing to go. The worst case scenario, I can get loan under my name and pay it on my own. Paying sticker will hurt, but $40k for three years is doesn't seem like a huge difference to me...

I expected few admissions as well, but had no luck, which is very disappointing. I applied to all T14 except Yale, and still have quite number pending including Harvard, Stanford, NYU, UChicago, etc., but I feel like my chances are very low especially when none of lower T14 didn't admit me. I've thought about having something off with my app, but doesn't seem like it. The only school I got straight ding from is Michigan. Others are all waitlist/reserves. Priority waitlist in Duke & GTown. I feel like if there was something really off, then they should've given me straight ding or regular waitlist from D or GT at best. I applied in early Jan. Not early, but I don't believe it's late. I submitted as soon as December score came out. I could be wrong... but anyway.

I got my degree in polymers engineering. Not many schools have it, but you can think of it as something that falls between ChemE & MaterialsE. Very likely not what's most demanded in market, but at least it's an engineering.

[Otunga]

We have identical numbers and I also got a WUSTL full scholarship a couple years ago. Have you heard from Cornell? They offered about 90k when I applied.

[mjs289]

We have identical numbers and I also got a WUSTL full scholarship a couple years ago. Have you heard from Cornell? They offered about 90k when I applied.

Yep. Cornell reserved me.

[reasonableperson]

Are you patent bar eligible?

[Otunga]

I think you should take WUSTL if you're willing to do non-biglaw; otherwise, maybe retake and go for the t14 again. If you just want to do biglaw, a non-t14 is a waste of time/money given the high risk.

[landshoes]

I wouldn't give up hope completely -- the rankings don't necessarily tell you where you'll get in. I got into schools that were better than schools that didn't even bother to waitlist me. It happens.

I would say WUSTL, 100%. Do you speak an Asian language fluently? That plus your background in engineering can give you a major advantage in the job market, from what I've heard.

[Tls2016]

If your parents are burning their retirement savings go to WUSTL.

I'm surprised the stats didn't get you any lower T 14 but I'm not an admission expert. Could there be something off with your application? Did you apply late?
What kind of engineering are you in?

I too believe WUSTL is the most reasonable decision. I wanted to ask because 1) my parents are typical Asians who are somewhat obsessed with school's name value and feel like if I can get into BL, it's probably worth it since I'll be able to pay off in several years, and 2) I too am concerned about job placement. If Vandy has that much value, I'll be willing to go. The worst case scenario, I can get loan under my name and pay it on my own. Paying sticker will hurt, but $40k for three years is doesn't seem like a huge difference to me...

I expected few admissions as well, but had no luck, which is very disappointing. I applied to all T14 except Yale, and still have quite number pending including Harvard, Stanford, NYU, UChicago, etc., but I feel like my chances are very low especially when none of lower T14 didn't admit me. I've thought about having something off with my app, but doesn't seem like it. The only school I got straight ding from is Michigan. Others are all waitlist/reserves. Priority waitlist in Duke & GTown. I feel like if there was something really off, then they should've given me straight ding or regular waitlist from D or GT at best. I applied in early Jan. Not early, but I don't believe it's late. I submitted as soon as December score came out. I could be wrong... but anyway.

I got my degree in polymers engineering. Not many schools have it, but you can think of it as something that falls between ChemE & MaterialsE. Very likely not what's most demanded in market, but at least it's an engineering.

I think early Jan is late for applying. You should ask people who applied more recently than me but that seems late.
You should be able to do better with those numbers.
I'm perplexed.
If you really want biglaw neither school is a guarantee even for IP. Maybe ask in the WUSTL thread.

[mjs289]

Thanks all! Seems like WUSTL wins for sure in my case:)

I think you should take WUSTL if you're willing to do non-biglaw; otherwise, maybe retake and go for the t14 again. If you just want to do biglaw, a non-t14 is a waste of time/money given the high risk.

As I said, retake is not an option. Already took 3 times. I'll need to wait 2 more yrs for retake, which isn't really appealing. And as I mentioned above as well, I'll be fine with mid-sized firms. Small ones are no-nos since I could've made better life getting a job as an engineer really:P. It's just I would really like to get back to Asia (family tie), and mid firms won't get me. I guess depending on how I build career, I can move around...

I wouldn't give up hope completely -- the rankings don't necessarily tell you where you'll get in. I got into schools that were better than schools that didn't even bother to waitlist me. It happens.

I would say WUSTL, 100%. Do you speak an Asian language fluently? That plus your background in engineering can give you a major advantage in the job market, from what I've heard.

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I'm aware of that and considering I have the interview scheduled with UChicago on coming Thursday, I guess hope is not 0. But continuous "we can't admit you" discourages me... and even if I get in to higher ranked schools with a miracle chance, I will have to pay sticker, which doesn't sound reasonable.
And yes, I'm a Korean native. Trying to learn Japanese as well, since I heard it gives a huge advantage, but will take at least several years:Q... I heard Asian language can help in the job market, but couldn't tell how true it is. Hopefully my gender helps as well... As far as I know, females are traditionally underrepresented in IP because of STEM background. Hope there are firms that value diversity:)

[Otunga]

Thanks all! Seems like WUSTL wins for sure in my case:)

I think you should take WUSTL if you're willing to do non-biglaw; otherwise, maybe retake and go for the t14 again. If you just want to do biglaw, a non-t14 is a waste of time/money given the high risk.

As I said, retake is not an option. Already took 3 times. I'll need to wait 2 more yrs for retake, which isn't really appealing. And as I mentioned above as well, I'll be fine with mid-sized firms. Small ones are no-nos since I could've made better life getting a job as an engineer really:P. It's just I would really like to get back to Asia (family tie), and mid firms won't get me. I guess depending on how I build career, I can move around...

I see what you're saying - I would say to take WUSTL then and try for biglaw. If no biglaw, then dropout after 1L and get an engineering job.

[mjs289]

If your parents are burning their retirement savings go to WUSTL.

I'm surprised the stats didn't get you any lower T 14 but I'm not an admission expert. Could there be something off with your application? Did you apply late?
What kind of engineering are you in?

I too believe WUSTL is the most reasonable decision. I wanted to ask because 1) my parents are typical Asians who are somewhat obsessed with school's name value and feel like if I can get into BL, it's probably worth it since I'll be able to pay off in several years, and 2) I too am concerned about job placement. If Vandy has that much value, I'll be willing to go. The worst case scenario, I can get loan under my name and pay it on my own. Paying sticker will hurt, but $40k for three years is doesn't seem like a huge difference to me...

I expected few admissions as well, but had no luck, which is very disappointing. I applied to all T14 except Yale, and still have quite number pending including Harvard, Stanford, NYU, UChicago, etc., but I feel like my chances are very low especially when none of lower T14 didn't admit me. I've thought about having something off with my app, but doesn't seem like it. The only school I got straight ding from is Michigan. Others are all waitlist/reserves. Priority waitlist in Duke & GTown. I feel like if there was something really off, then they should've given me straight ding or regular waitlist from D or GT at best. I applied in early Jan. Not early, but I don't believe it's late. I submitted as soon as December score came out. I could be wrong... but anyway.

I got my degree in polymers engineering. Not many schools have it, but you can think of it as something that falls between ChemE & MaterialsE. Very likely not what's most demanded in market, but at least it's an engineering.

I think early Jan is late for applying. You should ask people who applied more recently than me but that seems late.
You should be able to do better with those numbers.
I'm perplexed.
If you really want biglaw neither school is a guarantee even for IP. Maybe ask in the WUSTL thread.

I personally don't think it was too late. I don't know when you applied, but based on this forum and myLSN, there are plenty of people who got in when they applied on similar or even later dates with similar stats in this cycle. Previous cycles were not too different. I admit early Jan wasn't early, but if it was too late, everyone who applied on similar or later dates with similar stats should've been all waitlisted or rejected. My search could've been wrong, but 168, which is the highest LSAT score of mine, came from December LSAT, so applying early with lower number doesn't guarantee admission either. Maybe just waiting for another year might, but who knows? The cycle can be worse.

It's not I'm dead set on biglaw. My ultimate goal is getting back to Asia, so am aiming for it since BL will give the best chance of making it. I know I'm more likely to make transfers between firms in the course of my career, but obviously BL will give better exit option. That's the primary reason for wanting to go to BL. I'm personally fine working in mid-firms:)
I already WUSTL, but all of them told me to wait and see until I get all options, and ask here lol. I know neither doesn't guarantee, but that's no different for T14s, isn't it? The chance might be very close to guarantee for IP if I go to T14, but there is no "guarantee".

[mjs289]

Thanks all! Seems like WUSTL wins for sure in my case:)

I think you should take WUSTL if you're willing to do non-biglaw; otherwise, maybe retake and go for the t14 again. If you just want to do biglaw, a non-t14 is a waste of time/money given the high risk.

As I said, retake is not an option. Already took 3 times. I'll need to wait 2 more yrs for retake, which isn't really appealing. And as I mentioned above as well, I'll be fine with mid-sized firms. Small ones are no-nos since I could've made better life getting a job as an engineer really:P. It's just I would really like to get back to Asia (family tie), and mid firms won't get me. I guess depending on how I build career, I can move around...

I see what you're saying - I would say to take WUSTL then and try for biglaw. If no biglaw, then dropout after 1L and get an engineering job.

lol. Are you telling me to give up on my back to Asia dream? There is a reasons I gave up applying for PhD. But will keep it in mind(;!

[Tls2016]

I shouldn't have used the word guarantee. I should have used "odds" or "chances."You are correct. You need to accept that at WUSTL you may not get biglaw.

[Pure Applesauce]

,

[landshoes]

I got money off of multiple waitlists (also sort of a niche candidate). You're smart to assume you won't, but I would not consider your cycle over by any means.

[Budfox55]

I got money off of multiple waitlists (also sort of a niche candidate). You're smart to assume you won't, but I would not consider your cycle over by any means.

Roughly how much money did you get off the waitlist? Kind of curious because if I think I don't think its possible to get over a certain amount at certain schools, then I will most likely withdraw from some of the schools Ive been waitlisted at. Thanks.

[landshoes]

What would be the benefit to you from withdrawing? It basically only benefits the school.

[GreenJay]

Can anyone explain why this person seems to be severely underperforming their numbers?

[reasonableperson]

No difference between the two schools.
Just attend the Loyola Patent Fair and SFIPLA for 2L (and 3L) OCI, and you're good to go.

http://www.luc.edu/law/career/patent.html
http://sfipla.com/sfipla-events/job-fair/

Also if you pass the patent bar before 2L OCI (summer of 1L), enjoy multiple offers guaranteed.

[L’Étranger]

No difference between the two schools.
Just attend the Loyola Patent Fair and SFIPLA for 2L (and 3L) OCI, and you're good to go.

http://www.luc.edu/law/career/patent.html
http://sfipla.com/sfipla-events/job-fair/

Also if you pass the patent bar before 2L OCI (summer of 1L), enjoy multiple offers guaranteed.

This is correct in the sense that there's no difference between WUSTL and V in terms of IP prospects. Not correct that OP will "enjoy multiple offers guaranteed." Actual science background and experience plus lawschool grades are going to matter a lot.

[sublime]

..