UCLA vs Berkeley vs Georgetown vs Chicago Forum

[SD619]

Hey all. K-JD who wants to pursue LA big law. So far the top 4 choices of mine are the aforementioned:
UCLA- $60k
Georgetown- ?
Berkeley- ?
Chicago- $15k

I'm a MA 1st gen and I'm trying to decide where my best bet really will be considering I want to practice in SoCal.

I know UCLA is strong regional. I haven't negotiated offers yet but may be able to get more $ out of them.

How much money (estimate) do you all think that it should take to pull me from t-14 to UCLA? How much from Georgetown to pull me from higher ranked berk/Chi?

Are my options actually more like UCLA vs Berk since I want to practice in LA?

Thanks for the help, I really need it

[James.K.Polk]

Hey all. K-JD who wants to pursue LA big law. So far the top 4 choices of mine are the aforementioned:
UCLA- $60k
Georgetown- ?
Berkeley- ?
Chicago- $15k

I'm a MA 1st gen and I'm trying to decide where my best bet really will be considering I want to practice in SoCal.

I know UCLA is strong regional. I haven't negotiated offers yet but may be able to get more $ out of them.

How much money (estimate) do you all think that it should take to pull me from t-14 to UCLA? How much from Georgetown to pull me from higher ranked berk/Chi?

Are my options actually more like UCLA vs Berk since I want to practice in LA?

Thanks for the help, I really need it

I would say yes to this. Hope you get a big offer from Berkeley and try to negotiate.

[SD619]

Thank you, I appreciate the response.

Any more specific advice? UCLA vs Berkeley maybe?

[krads153]

So you're basically paying sticker at all of them (more or less) except UCLA where you have $60k scholly? You're still going to graduate with over 200k (and with most of them closer to 300k) debt...not sure any of these are a good idea.

[Emma.]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

[SD619]

So you're basically paying sticker at all of them (more or less) except UCLA where you have $60k scholly? You're still going to graduate with over 200k (and with most of them closer to 300k) debt...not sure any of these are a good idea.

No. Georgetown and Berk haven't sent out scholarship info yet. Georgetown should be getting back to me soon.

Also UCLA in state tuition for 3 years plus housing/COA is not 200k

[SD619]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

[landshoes]

i know people from Chi who have gotten interviews and summer positions in LA. (1L, though). It wouldn't necessarily close you off from the LA market. That said, only $15k (for all 3 years?) isn't that much. But UCLA seems overpriced with only 60K off.

I don't love any of these options. What are your stats? Given that you're MA I wonder if you can do better than this.

[SD619]

i know people from Chi who have gotten interviews and summer positions in LA. (1L, though). It wouldn't necessarily close you off from the LA market. That said, only $15k (for all 3 years?) isn't that much. But UCLA still seems overpriced.

What are your stats? Given that you're MA I wonder if you can do better than this.

Stats are 3.5 gpa 167 LSAT.

I got the "name your price email" from Georgetown so will hopefully get an offer soon. Also hoping to get offer from Berk soon as well.

I also got:
100k vandy
135k wash u
111k Emory

[Emma.]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

[SD619]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

[Emma.]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

Lol. You do you, I guess.

[SD619]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

Lol. You do you, I guess.

Thanks for the terrific advice, Emma!

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

[landshoes]

i know people from Chi who have gotten interviews and summer positions in LA. (1L, though). It wouldn't necessarily close you off from the LA market. That said, only $15k (for all 3 years?) isn't that much. But UCLA still seems overpriced.

What are your stats? Given that you're MA I wonder if you can do better than this.

Stats are 3.5 gpa 167 LSAT.

I got the "name your price email" from Georgetown so will hopefully get an offer soon. Also hoping to get offer from Berk soon as well.

I also got:
100k vandy
135k wash u
111k Emory

Huh. Still seems a bit low. How does retaking & reapplying sound?

[SD619]

i know people from Chi who have gotten interviews and summer positions in LA. (1L, though). It wouldn't necessarily close you off from the LA market. That said, only $15k (for all 3 years?) isn't that much. But UCLA still seems overpriced.

What are your stats? Given that you're MA I wonder if you can do better than this.

Stats are 3.5 gpa 167 LSAT.

I got the "name your price email" from Georgetown so will hopefully get an offer soon. Also hoping to get offer from Berk soon as well.

I also got:
100k vandy
135k wash u
111k Emory

Huh. Still seems a bit low. How does retaking & reapplying sound?

Considering I'm 21 with limited work experience and k-jd it doesn't sound ideal

[jphiggo]

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

I think your focus is right and I believe the scandal involving Berk's dean shouldn't be a factor in your decision. As far as the money situation goes, you need to wait on your remaining financial aid offers before being in a good position to make any decision. Berkeley is probably great for your goals, but only if the money is right. Good luck!

[Emma.]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

Lol. You do you, I guess.

Thanks for the terrific advice, Emma!

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

I'm just not sure how you can make these blanket statements. What's your basis for claiming that none of this will affect you? I have several Boalt alum friends who have vowed to sever all ties with the school while the former dean still has a job there. And why would you think student morale doesn't have an effect on the education you'd receive? Of course the classroom environment is affected by how students feel about the school and its administration, and an effect on the classroom environment in turn affects the quality of the education. It may not be a huge effect, but it's naive to completely discount stuff like this.

ETA: There are other hard-to-quantify considerations, too. If there's an interrim dean for an extended period, that might actually hurt you in things like clerkship hiring (see, for example, Dean Chemerinski's ability to land his students in top-notch clerkships).

[Biglaw1990]

.

[landshoes]

No GPA has downsides too, especially when it comes to clerkships and your ability to impress people as aURM. Profs won't immediately think of you as the "type" who does well in law school. They may not realize it, but everyone has biases. (Substantial) blind grading has a lot of perks, and one of them is that it lets you shine without people thinking of you as an URM.

As a 21 year old K-JD, you would probably benefit from retaking and reapplying. Your LSAT isn't that great. I don't know how much prep you put in or if it's your highest score, those are obvious factors. I'm not sure why you said that you're a 21 year old K-JD with limited work experience as those were factors weighing against waiting a year. If anything, it's the opposite. Getting a job is annoying, but you're looking at a huge amount of debt right now, even from UCLA.

[jrc223]

Agree with retake/reapply advice. But if not, then Berkeley

[rpupkin]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

Lol. You do you, I guess.

Thanks for the terrific advice, Emma!

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

I'm just not sure how you can make these blanket statements. What's your basis for claiming that none of this will affect you? I have several Boalt alum friends who have vowed to sever all ties with the school while the former dean still has a job there. And why would you think student morale doesn't have an effect on the education you'd receive? Of course the classroom environment is affected by how students feel about the school and its administration, and an effect on the classroom environment in turn affects the quality of the education. It may not be a huge effect, but it's naive to completely discount stuff like this.

ETA: There are other hard-to-quantify considerations, too. If there's an interrim dean for an extended period, that might actually hurt you in things like clerkship hiring (see, for example, Dean Chemerinski's ability to land his students in top-notch clerkships).

Eh. Erwin Chemerinsky can help students get clerkships because he's Erwin Chemerinksy, not because he's dean of a law school. I'm sure Chemerinksy helped students get clerkships when he was at Duke as well. Typically, it's connected faculty who help law student land competitive clerkships, not the dean. I don't know anything about the dean of Berkeley—I had never heard of him until I ready today's embarrassing story—but I seriously doubt he had much, if anything, to do with Berkeley's clerkship placement.

As for the long-term or medium-term effects of the dean-sexual-harassment story on Berkeley's reputation, I don't think it's going to be a thing. Top law schools (including Berkeley) have survived more embarrassing scandals than this. Folks will be upset about it for a few weeks, he'll resign, and then the admit-OCI-grad cycle will go on as before.

[SD619]

A bit more info: I have no interest in clerk ships.

How much money would I have to get from these schools to justify me going, in your opinions? Because I was always told that debt was an inevitable part of the law school process. I never anticipated going for free. I have 0 debt from undergrad so I'll be starting fresh.

Also, if I retook and reapplied, what would the best possible final result be? Bumping last to 170+? Getting a full ride to Berkeley? Is it really full-ride or bust? Because I don't hear of too many people getting cashed out at t-4's either (like yeah, I know 15k at chi is nothing, but I don't hear of many people getting 100k because chi doesn't have to)

[SD619]

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

I think your focus is right and I believe the scandal involving Berk's dean shouldn't be a factor in your decision. As far as the money situation goes, you need to wait on your remaining financial aid offers before being in a good position to make any decision. Berkeley is probably great for your goals, but only if the money is right. Good luck!

Thank you for the advice and wishes. Cheers

[SLS_AMG]

I'd avoid Berkeley.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... arassment/

So you'd avoid a t-10 law school that places tons in LA big law because the dean is being sued for sexual harassment?

Can you elaborate how that would affect me directly at all please?

It isn't just a lawsuit. He's admitted to the underlying conduct. And the school has clearly badly mishandled the whole thing. It'll affect student morale, and many alumni are also furious with the school which isn't exactly going to be a boon for networking in the future.

Student morale won't affect me, alumni aren't going to penalize grads over faculty misconduct, networking won't be affected by a dean's actions. Berkeley doesn't stop being elite, news rankings aren't based on sexual misconduct

Its not enough to deter me from Berkeley because it doesn't actually affect the legal education. Stuff like this happens all the time

Lol. You do you, I guess.

Thanks for the terrific advice, Emma!

Does anyone have any feedback on the money situation?

I'm just not sure how you can make these blanket statements. What's your basis for claiming that none of this will affect you? I have several Boalt alum friends who have vowed to sever all ties with the school while the former dean still has a job there. And why would you think student morale doesn't have an effect on the education you'd receive? Of course the classroom environment is affected by how students feel about the school and its administration, and an effect on the classroom environment in turn affects the quality of the education. It may not be a huge effect, but it's naive to completely discount stuff like this.

ETA: There are other hard-to-quantify considerations, too. If there's an interrim dean for an extended period, that might actually hurt you in things like clerkship hiring (see, for example, Dean Chemerinski's ability to land his students in top-notch clerkships).

This is just terrible advice. Networking will not be affected--alumni are not going to take the school's ineptitude out on current students. And if they truly are that shortsighted and reactionary, they almost certainly aren't in a position to be making hiring decisions to begin with.

Also, the dean has already taken an indefinite leave of absence from his deanship that may very well turn into a resignation in the not-too-distant future.

Berkeley students are angry at the mishandling of the this incident, but it will not affect the long-term reputation of the school. It seems most of the ineptitude was actually occurring outside the law school throughout various other on-campus offices.

I can virtually guarantee this will have no tangible impact on OP's classroom experience, which would begin in August.

[SD619]

Lol no hate, I don't care if anyone trashes a school for a dumb reason (I'm trying to be logical and go off of numbers and job prospects anyway)

I'm mostly curious about numbers, like what would a good offer be from Berkeley? It feels like people are pushing for huge scholarship or bust, but truthfully, I never anticipated going to law school debt free...