Is Columbia worth sticker? Forum

[lurkerlarry]

The total COA (including living costs for 3 years) is around 270k

I have a year's worth of tuition saved. I currently work at a stable job where I have benefits and make 70k a year plus bonus. If I stayed through the time I was going to law school I could probably expect to be making around 85-90k a year at the time I would be graduating. However, I have always wanted to go to law school and I think it would help me begin a fulfilling career (my current job is not fulfilling).

Do you think this is worth it in terms of cost and possibility of a better career?

[Biglaw1990]

Did you get into Penn or Chicago with $$$? If so, you might want to consider those options, considering they all place amazingly well. In terms of the value of a CLS degree, many would say that it's worth it. You're going to get a great job coming out of CLS. The question you have to ask yourself is: is the better chance of landing an offer at a top firm worth the extra cost?

[kaiser]

Any lower T14 options with scholarships? CLS is a great school, but it may not be worth sticker on your other options.

[lurkerlarry]

There are other options available, Columbia has just been my dream school for a long time so it is very hard to let it go. I realize the t14 (esp. at reduced cost) can still open doors, but for me it is much more that this is something I've really wanted.

[Biglaw1990]

It all boils down to how much debt you're comfortable with. There's no doubt that a CLS degree is amazing and opens so many doors, but the cost of it the degree is really what it boils down to.

[Tls2016]

There are other options available, Columbia has just been my dream school for a long time so it is very hard to let it go. I realize the t14 (esp. at reduced cost) can still open doors, but for me it is much more that this is something I've really wanted.

What is it about law that you expect to find fulfilling? What are your employment goals?

[krads153]

It all boils down to how much debt you're comfortable with. There's no doubt that a CLS degree is amazing and opens so many doors, but the cost of it the degree is really what it boils down to.

This doesn't answer his question....

The objective answer is NO it's not. You'd have to be a real idiot to spend 270k on a degree. Keep your job and don't go into law - odds are you're not going to find it any more fulfilling.

[jbagelboy]

Don't attend any school at sticker.

Have you gotten your financial aid award? What's your LSAT/GPA and what advancement opportunities do you see in your job? If there was a school to spend that money on, it would be CLS or a handful of others, but I wouldn't do it for any school in your situation.

[krads153]

There are other options available, Columbia has just been my dream school for a long time so it is very hard to let it go. I realize the t14 (esp. at reduced cost) can still open doors, but for me it is much more that this is something I've really wanted.

Just get over it. A degree is just that - a stupid degree. Nobody cares if you went to Columbia - it's a dime a dozen in NYC. Paying 270k for some a chance at a "more fulfilling job" when you'd be stuck with debt and tied to biglaw (not fulfilling for the most part) and/or a very low paying job in the public sector just to pay down loans via PLSF (nothing stomps out spirit like poverty) is not going to make law any more fulfilling. This isn't la la land......

[Tls2016]

It all boils down to how much debt you're comfortable with. There's no doubt that a CLS degree is amazing and opens so many doors, but the cost of it the degree is really what it boils down to.

This doesn't answer his question....

The objective answer is NO it's not. You'd have to be a real idiot to spend 270k on a degree. Keep your job and don't go into law - odds are you're not going to find it any more fulfilling.

I agree but I would like to know what OP sees in law. OP should stay where he is and have a good life and forget law.

It's not just the expense. You have to add in the say on average 80k salary for 3 years. It's a half a million dollars.( though I would subtract OPs living expenses for where he is now but I don't have a number)

[krads153]

It all boils down to how much debt you're comfortable with. There's no doubt that a CLS degree is amazing and opens so many doors, but the cost of it the degree is really what it boils down to.

This doesn't answer his question....

The objective answer is NO it's not. You'd have to be a real idiot to spend 270k on a degree. Keep your job and don't go into law - odds are you're not going to find it any more fulfilling.

I agree but I would like to know what OP sees in law. OP should stay where he is and have a good life and forget law.

It's not just the expense. You have to add in the say on average 80k salary for 3 years. It's a half a million dollars.

He probably imagines that we save unicorns.....a lot of lawyers would kill for his job and QOL (and regret going into law in the first place, and none of us oldies paid close to 270k for law school.......).

As for 0Ls in this thread giving advice to other 0Ls...please stfu.

[fliptrip]

Don't attend any school at sticker.

This is absolutely right.

Just on the numbers, you should be absolutely sure you want to enter the law. You might end up spending a shitload of money just to end up older, no better paid, and even more miserable.

[SplitMyPants]

Don't do it, OP.

[smaug]

No.

[bowser]

No.

Edit: What do you like so much about Columbia? I think many people assume you're getting $$ at another T14, and everybody will say take that.

[TLSModBot]

No.

I was exactly where you were (70K at a stable but unfulfilling job with some savings, moderate promotion prospects probably capping in low 6 figures years down the road). I am finishing up law school, got a "good" outcome (Biglaw in the firm tier and market I wanted) and will be less than 90K in debt total).

On reflection, I was very lucky to get exactly what I wanted outcome-wise. You might not be so lucky but with your school option that isn't as much a problem for you. The bigger problem is that you'll need to be very lucky post law school in order to make it financially worthwhile. You'll need to find a firm that pays well, experiences no significant financial difficulties, and offers work you can tolerate for years. You'll also need to not get burned out or pushed out before you can pay down that debt. You'll also need to find a long-term career option post-BigLaw (protip: you are very, very unlikely to make partner and non-partner careers at BigLaw are basically as brutal but for way less pay than partners make).

I don't recommend going if it's going to put you deeply in debt - there are too many things you can't predict or control for that could leave you miserable, broke, or both.

[mornincounselor]

0L here, so I suppose you can take this with a grain of salt, but--

I think $270k is an underestimation of your total cost. I believe it's over $300k. Then you have the opportunity cost of $70k/yr you are making now. So the real cost of attendance is a tad over $500k--but we can subtract the $30k for 1 summer so call it $470k.

You suspect you would be making 90k/yr if you stayed at your current job and you assume you would be making $160k/yr once you graduate from Columbia.

Are you already living in NYC? If not you also have to take into account the massive COL while you work and the big income tax payment every year.

There is some number of years working in BL where it becomes a good choice to attend Columbia, but the question is will you last long enough in big law to realize that value. If you only last 3 years and then you are back to another $90k/yr job (or worse off) than you just made a horrific decision.

Columbia at sticker for you is pretty indefensible, and becoming a lawyer in general is likely not worth it for you unless you got a ton of money to the other NY Ivy.

[bruinfan10]

Don't do it, OP.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Don't do it. Take a scholarship or don't go at all. And 270K is likely an underestimation (at least it is less than I still owe post-CLS ).

[GreenEggs]

If you had 10 million dollars in the bank? Sure you might as well spend it on doing something you wanted to do for three years. If you are taking out loans to do it? Never in a million years.

[L’Étranger]

This more nuanced than "don't go without a scholarship" like everyone above is saying.

Yes, if one has any scholarship at a comparable or nearly comparable school to Columbia, it should be seriously considered against Columbia at sticker.

However, if Columbia at sticker is one's only choice, career prospects out of Columbia are as good as they get. So if one wants to be an attorney with good job prospects at a cost of 270k that's not totally indefensible.

This is a subjective rather than objective choice. It is not objectively wrong to pay to go to a quality law school if one knows they want to pursue a career as an attorney.

[deepseapartners]

There are other options available, Columbia has just been my dream school for a long time so it is very hard to let it go. I realize the t14 (esp. at reduced cost) can still open doors, but for me it is much more that this is something I've really wanted.

Do you really want to go to law school? If so, go to another T14 at not-sticker. Do you really want to attend Columbia University in some capacity? Maneuver towards the business school for good career prospects, or get into a fellowship-funded PhD program for the ultimate academic experience (and even worse employment prospects than your current job).

You sound like there's something more to your story. If you want any answer other than NO ABSOLUTELY NOT, you should probably share that information to get a complete assessment.

[deepseapartners]

The total COA (including living costs for 3 years) is around 270k

Also, your previous posts state that you are the primary income earner for a family. I understand the desire to become a better provider or give your family a better life, but if you entering law school b/c are unfulfilled at your current job, I think you will find your career switch to be massive mistake if the only reason you decide to go to law school is because you're bored right now.

[fliptrip]

This more nuanced than "don't go without a scholarship" like everyone above is saying.

Yes, if one has any scholarship at a comparable or nearly comparable school to Columbia, it should be seriously considered against Columbia at sticker.

However, if Columbia at sticker is one's only choice, career prospects out of Columbia are as good as they get. So if one wants to be an attorney with good job prospects at a cost of 270k that's not totally indefensible.

This is a subjective rather than objective choice. It is not objectively wrong to pay to go to a quality law school if one knows they want to pursue a career as an attorney.

Let's look at this objectively, OP is basically trading $195,724 in tuition and $120,000 in lost income over 3-years of school in order to "buy" an opportunity to make $x more as a lawyer. So, if we run this as an investment over 10 years with that $315,724 as your investment costs and your returns basically being your increased salary in law versus where he would be staying his current course. You don't stay in biglaw for long, so that differential is worth less over time. If you apply a generous 10% discount rate to account for shit happens, and generously assume OP sticks in biglaw 3 years, the NPV of that investment is -$60k. So, no, for this OP, sticker at Columbia is not objectively defensible.

[KiltedKicker]

Sorry OP, I wish it made sense but going to another school that is surely offering money is a better monetary option. There are few extenuating circumstances that would make it a better decision than going elsewhere.

That being said, the lawyers on here telling someone who got into Columbia that they shouldn't go to law school are not giving helpful advice. If OP wants to be a lawyer they will certainly have options that are safe investments money wise. Some people get law degrees and hate their work, but many don't. Just because you hated it doesn't mean you should just blanket tell everyone 'don't go to law school no matter what'.