Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to three now. Bear with me, buddies Forum

[Unfathomableruckus]

OP I'm sorry to hear about your husband cheating on you. Subjectively, I like you and wish you success. However, objectively, I really don't think going to law school in your case is a good idea. There are just too many obstacles. You plan to be working still, and Berkeley is a 2 hour commute? You're going to be making this commute every single day for 1L. How is that on gas, much less your mental health and endurance? Law school takes time. 1L is not as time consuming but is mentally taxing; 2L is very time consuming. Put that on top of having to care for a child, and working 10 hrs/week, along with whatever else you have to deal with, it's just too much. It can be done, but is it worth risking $300k debt to find out whether you can pull it off or not?

Since you exclusively want to do PI work that will not pay well at all, I don't think you should go anywhere without a full scholarship, or something close to that, and I don't think you should go to Hastings under any circumstances whatsoever.

You're going to have to make some concessions at this point because you've set parameters for an impossible choice. You're going to either have to relocate, retake, not go to law school, or be willing to take a biglaw/midlaw/government job post graduation.

I'm going to refrain from giving any personal life advice because that's not my place, and other should do the same.

In all fairness, it's the same commute that I've been making every day for years. I take public transportation. It's not too busy, so in undergrad, I used the time to do my readings for school. I figure there can be a bit of that for law school (provided I go). I think the hardest bit of multitasking I ever did was working 35 hours a week with a 2 hour commute on public transportation and a newborn baby that I brought to work with me (I went back to work when she was three weeks old and took her to work with me every day until she was 5 months old.) My husband "worked nights" (ok, sometimes he did work.) at this time, and so I got home and I was all alone to make dinner and get the kid to bed. Do you really think IL will be harder than that? If you do, then you might have a point, but I assumed it would be just a little easier, because that was probably the most taxing time of my life.

I'm not getting a full tuition scholarship from a T14. I might still get one from Davis, and I have (for all intents and purposes, as I can pay off the rest in savings) one at WUSTL. Do you think one of those would be feasible, or do you really think that I need to give this dream up? I'm not antagonizing; I honestly want to know.

[BigZuck]

Eh.....

Ok now I'll say don't go to law school right now. Revisit the idea again when you're like 27. The next few years are probably going to be enough of a challenge without adding the stress and cost of law school on top of that. Plus, you'll have even more time to figure out if this is really what you want to do, and what you want from life more generally.

(I'm sure I just broke a PNJ rule but whatever)

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't think you're going to find law school - any part of it - tougher than that, honestly.

[Tls2016]

OP just go to Berkley. You can always PAYE your debt like all those kids who go to TT schools and end up with no job if you have to.

You are only going to law school once. Despite my strong debt aversion, go to the best school that's the most convenient for you,just fight for the best price

Edit: or don't go.

[Unfathomableruckus]

Ok guys. 50 votes show a clear winner. I'm going to Berkeley. It's what I really want to do for so many reasons. Thanks TLS. You guys are fabulous. This is going to be one of my main internet hangouts for a very long time. I took into account the reasons why not and I'm prepared to be accountable for my decision. I'll still go to Hastings ASD for closure reasons, and I'll start withdrawing from the schools I haven't been considering for a long time, while holding into a couple others for scholarship negotiation (matching) purposes. Thanks again and goodnight.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I am sorry to have insulted my husband out of context. Let it be known that I found out quite serendipitously on the evening after taking the LSAT that this man had been cheating on me consistently for two years with sex workers. (Including while I was breastfeeding our daughter) Actually, TLS has been a godsend for me as far as taking my mind off of that and keeping it on my plans for the future. I am with him still for logistical reasons mostly, and because he's a good dad.

I don't intend to comment on this to any degree further than is relevant to the decision calculus, but it has to be said that if OP has reason to believe she'll be raising her kid either alone, or at least not in a two-parent household, it makes establishing financial security all the more imperative.

Whether OP really wants to deal with the stress of law school on top of all this is something that has to be concerned, but obviously only she can really weigh those factors properly.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I am sorry to have insulted my husband out of context. Let it be known that I found out quite serendipitously on the evening after taking the LSAT that this man had been cheating on me consistently for two years with sex workers. (Including while I was breastfeeding our daughter) Actually, TLS has been a godsend for me as far as taking my mind off of that and keeping it on my plans for the future. I am with him still for logistical reasons mostly, and because he's a good dad.

I don't intend to comment on this to any degree further than is relevant to the decision calculus, but it has to be said that if OP has reason to believe she'll be raising her kid either alone, or at least not in a two-parent household, it makes establishing financial security all the more imperative.

Whether OP really wants to deal with the stress of law school on top of all this is something that has to be concerned, but obviously only she can really weigh those factors properly.

Yes, I would like to be in a good position to become a single parent one day. I don't want to rely on this person or any partner. Berkeley's LRAP would actually work out better for me if I was divorced than married anyway. I can stomach him for a few more years if it means living my dreams though. I think that having a JD will give me and my daughter increased security and flexibility in my specific case.

[BigZuck]

Good luck OP, I hope everything works out for you and your family

[NUDad]

Please talk this over with people that you can trust and who know you well.

Borrowing a quarter million dollars for law school is extremely risky, especially if you are pursuing PI. You will be relying on programs like LRAP, PSLF, etc. to service and hopefully forgive the debt for you, but in the meantime that level of debt will feel like a millstone around your neck for 10 years or more. The calculus is a little different for those who plan to pursue Big Law and bust their butt to earn $160K+ for several years, or those who have supportive family that are willing and able to bail them out if it doesn't work out.

You have two better options, in my mind: Go with a school who will give you $$$, or defer a year and work hard to improve your LSAT to 170+. That one year deferral can save you 100K+, give you additional time to clarify your goals, and then your daughter will be one year older.

In any case, I wish you great success and a happy life!

[krads153]

Please talk this over with people that you can trust and who know you well.

Borrowing a quarter million dollars for law school is extremely risky, especially if you are pursuing PI. You will be relying on programs like LRAP, PSLF, etc. to service and hopefully forgive the debt for you, but in the meantime that level of debt will feel like a millstone around your neck for 10 years or more. The calculus is a little different for those who plan to pursue Big Law and bust their butt to earn $160K+ for several years, or those who have supportive family that are willing and able to bail them out if it doesn't work out.

You have two better options, in my mind: Go with a school who will give you $$$, or defer a year and work hard to improve your LSAT to 170+. That one year deferral can save you 100K+, give you additional time to clarify your goals, and then your daughter will be one year older.

In any case, I wish you great success and a happy life!

Good luck OP! Sorry to butt in, but I have to second this. I paid off a ton of student loan debt (while unmarried (but dating someone) and then married without kids) and it was quite hard already (even on a biglaw salary)....my spouse never had any loans either and works full time. We also have parents who can help us out financially if need be. It's going to be tough to live with 300k debt, even if you are doing LRAP/PLSF (because you're tied to a non profit job for 10 years and also you won't be making much anyway - a lot of non profit attorneys make less than teachers -- all the while your debt keeps increasing due to the interest rate). If given the choice again, I wouldn't have taken out as much debt for law school as I did (and frankly not even sure I would have gone).

[Unfathomableruckus]

Sorry to necro my own thread, but Hastings just upped the offer and I could go debt-free (I have a little saved up and a spouse who will be working full time). My family says I'm a sucker if I go to berk now at sticker (no mention of scholarship but I doubt I'll get one) and probably a bad parent too. Husband says he's cool with what I decide. I'd have to leave my org if I went, but I'd have to work a little anyway and I have connections with orgs close to home and in sf. I hate to say it, but I don't think I'd be out of work because of my very unique language skills and knowledge. I went to the ASD and didn't like it at all. I really want to go to berkeley but I think seeing the interest go up and up on the debt would do bad things to me emotionally. Plus to be honest my beloved, well-meaning family can be a little toxic and I don't want to need their help signing off if I want to buy a house or something (they will "I told you so" at me all the time, much like they do about my husband (their predictions were shockingly true about him.) like I said, sorry, but up until Hastings brought my scholarship up, everyone in my life was on the same page about berkeley being my best choice, and now my coworkers and family are saying go to Hastings and be free from debt and career limitations.

[pterodactyls]

I don't claim to be an expert, as a 0L. But to me, it really comes down to your chances at LRAP.

What is the honest probability that, after graduation, you will work for 10 years in a law-related government/nonprofit job in the U.S.?

Because if in 2029 it turns out that you did just that, I would say that you should have gone to Berkeley. Berkeley's LRAP program is very generous if you fulfill those requirements. But you have to weigh the risk now as to whether or not that will happen.

[pterodactyls]

I will also add that, in regards to LRAP, I've found that it can be harder for parents to understand because it's a relatively newer thing. Taking out $250,000 on paper sounds scary, but you may only end up having to pay back a small portion of it. In theory, you could even go to Berkeley and end up paying back nothing (if your income was low enough).

I would guess that programs like LRAP will become more common in the future, as it makes sense for schools. Recruitment aside, why award someone a full ride if they're going to be wealthy after graduation and could have easily paid for their loans? Schools make guesses at what you can afford to pay based on your current financial info and (maybe) your parents'. But what you can afford really depends on what you will be making after you graduate, so why not charge accordingly?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't think that's how awarding scholarships works, though, because they are all about recruitment. An applicant gets a free ride based on their already-demonstrated achievements, not based on what job they might get in the future. (Except for need-based aid, which is uncommon outside HYS.) I don't think the frequency of LRAPs is going to change - either schools have money to offer LRAP or they don't.

[pterodactyls]

I just meant in theory I could see it becoming more common as a concept, especially outside of law. I think law schools are the only ones that offer it now, right? If you're a school where most graduates work in the public sector (like public administration or nonprofit management), an LRAP program offered to all students may be more attractive than scholarships for a few. But that's just me speculating, I'm not an expert.

Edit: This is outside the point of this thread, I apologize. My main point was that parents may be unfamiliar with LRAP, and thus may dismiss it as an option. I know that my parents thought I was crazy at first when I told them how much $ I may be taking out in loans. But once I sat them down and explained LRAP and ran the numbers with them, they were less concerned.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I don't claim to be an expert, as a 0L. But to me, it really comes down to your chances at LRAP.

What is the honest probability that, after graduation, you will work for 10 years in a law-related government/nonprofit job in the U.S.?

Because if in 2029 it turns out that you did just that, I would say that you should have gone to Berkeley. Berkeley's LRAP program is very generous if you fulfill those requirements. But you have to weigh the risk now as to whether or not that will happen.

I'm certain that I will be in qualifying employment, but I'm afraid of the uncertainty that the debt and the tenuousness of pslf would give me. I don't know if that's foolish or healthy skepticism.

[fliptrip]

I don't know a ton about the PI scene in your field or in the Bay Area, but since you already have deep experience and connections I suspect you'll be able to get a job. Then from there, I would assume your career prospects will depend on your networks and the quality of your work. I'd assume you'll be stuck in the Bay Area for the duration, though.

Also, your mental peace of mind is valuable too, as long as you can live with Hastings, sounds good to me.

[pterodactyls]

I'm certain that I will be in qualifying employment, but I'm afraid of the uncertainty that the debt and the tenuousness of pslf would give me. I don't know if that's foolish or healthy skepticism.

If I was in your shoes I'd take Berkeley then. Given that you're in qualifying employment, I think the risk is fairly low. I don't see Berkeley backing out on its LRAP commitment, and I don't (personally) see the federal government backing out on PSLF, at least for current borrowers (wouldn't be surprised if the program eventually changes for new borrowers). Just my $0.02 though.

Edit: I also don't have children and have a lot less to lose. I'd be curious to see what others think about the LRAP risk, given your future employment.

[Unfathomableruckus]

It's nice to see that both are seen as decent options. I guess the rest has to come from inside. I'll meditate on it until the deadline comes in 3 weeks to draw a line in the sand.

[fliptrip]

I'm certain that I will be in qualifying employment, but I'm afraid of the uncertainty that the debt and the tenuousness of pslf would give me. I don't know if that's foolish or healthy skepticism.

If I was in your shoes I'd take Berkeley then. Given that you're in qualifying employment, I think the risk is fairly low. I don't see Berkeley backing out on its LRAP commitment, and I don't (personally) see the federal government backing out on PSLF, at least for current borrowers (wouldn't be surprised if the program eventually changes for new borrowers). Just my $0.02 though.

Edit: I also don't have children and have a lot less to lose. I'd be curious to see what others think about the LRAP risk, given your future employment.

I believe this OP has way less LRAP risk than most because she's had such substantive experience in the field she wants to work in. She's not some pie in the sky kid talking about saving the world.