UGA vs. SLU Forum

[colonel4bin]

I'm trying to decide between University of Georgia and Saint Louis University. This is the relevant info...thanks for the help.

I was awarded a $93,000 scholarship to SLU (over three years) and the tuition equalization scholarship from UGA which means I will be awarded in-state tuition for 1L. According to them many students become residents and get in-state for the last two years. I will be financing my law school through student loans.
UGA COA: $35,914 = $108,000 over 3 years
SLU COA: $26,602 = $80,000 over 3 years

I am from the south, but am open to working just about anywhere in the future. Have lived and worked in DC the past couple of years and enjoyed it, except for the high cost of living.

I am pretty set on the idea of pursuing a career in health law. Thus, the main reason I applied to SLU. They have a top ranked health law program, with a dedicated health law center. They also have a dual degree program (JD/MHA) that i would consider completing if it seemed like the right thing to do (would mean an extra year, but potentially more opportunities in my field.) But, UGA is a much higher ranked overall program. SLU is still top 100.

My numbers are okay but nothing that great. 162 LSAT on one take. I honestly was very disappointed in my score as I had been scoring high 160's/low 170's on my timed practice tests during the last few weeks of studying and was expecting to end up in that range. I told myself going into this that i was only taking it once and that i would use it as an indicator if I should in fact pursue law school. I dont plan on taking it again but maybe could be convinced to do otherwise....I do really want to pursue a career in law, especially in the health care field.

Thanks again for the help.

[bdb90]

What is your GPA? Where would you rather practice, St. Louis or Atlanta? SLU is regional as is UGA. However, total cost of attendance at either is really high. You definitely need to retake if your were scoring in the lower 170's on practice tests.

[AinsleyKs]

I'm at 1L at SLU right now. My cost of living has been much lower than expected (moved from DC, so anything seems low.) The health law program is really great and gives you more mobility than people like to think and the STL legal market loves SLU students. Feel free to PM.

[lawhopeful10]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

[colonel4bin]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

Thanks for the response.

Dramatically better? I'm unsure about that...IMO low GPA (3.2) is keeping me out of higher schools unless I jump at least 6-7 points. Maybe I'm completely wrong, though.

What do you think the price range for UGA that is worth it? From what I can tell it doesn't seem like UGA gives out that many large scholarships. Im fine with ending up in Atl after graduation, and so that's kind of been my motivation to consider UGA as a top choice.

[baal hadad]

specialty rankings don't matter

also SLU is not good for employment outcomes http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/slu/2014/

UGA fully debt financed will be north of $125k at grad which is DEF not work it

Retake

[colonel4bin]

specialty rankings don't matter

also SLU is not good for employment outcomes http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/slu/2014/

UGA fully debt financed will be north of $125k at grad which is DEF not work it

Retake

Agree with your point about speciality rankings.

But..I've now heard three "not worth it"'s for UGA. Okay i get it. What is "worth it" for them then? what amount of scholarship that I would get from retaking would make it okay for me to go there? Just need clarification on this point before deciding to retake in June or October and postpone a decision I am absolutely set on doing. Realistically I think that the most I could get over three years from UGA is $33,000 (according to LSN).So does me getting that money make it worth it then? or are you saying a "full ride or dont go there" scenario? Cause if thats the case I think im going to disregard.

[LandMermaid]

I honestly don't know enough to give you a pro/con of one school vs. the other, but anecdotally I scored a 162 on my first LSAT and managed a 5 pt bump on the second. UGA is giving me around 12k per year after in-state, taking tuition down to around 8k per year. Even if you only pulled your LSAT up a few points, it seems like it could make a pretty big difference. Athens' col is fairly low too which could really help you minimize debt and have a fair shot at the Atlanta market.

[baal hadad]

specialty rankings don't matter

also SLU is not good for employment outcomes http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/slu/2014/

UGA fully debt financed will be north of $125k at grad which is DEF not work it

Retake

Agree with your point about speciality rankings.

But..I've now heard three "not worth it"'s for UGA. Okay i get it. What is "worth it" for them then? what amount of scholarship that I would get from retaking would make it okay for me to go there? Just need clarification on this point before deciding to retake in June or October and postpone a decision I am absolutely set on doing. Realistically I think that the most I could get over three years from UGA is $33,000 (according to LSN).So does me getting that money make it worth it then? or are you saying a "full ride or dont go there" scenario? Cause if thats the case I think im going to disregard.

I'd go into maybe $75k debt for uga considering its job outcomes. You'll probably get a job but it almost assuredly won't be a big law one. We don't know much about salary other than that but smaller firms is probs around $50k-$70k. Somewhere in there

Make no mistake I am a lawyer now and $75k loans will suck ass to pay off if you don't get a big law job

Im not going so far as to say "full ride or don't go" bc uga is p solid but there are plenty of school out there that aren't even worth taking out debt for the cost of attendance

[Fiero85]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

Thanks for the response.

Dramatically better? I'm unsure about that...IMO low GPA (3.2) is keeping me out of higher schools unless I jump at least 6-7 points. Maybe I'm completely wrong, though.

What do you think the price range for UGA that is worth it? From what I can tell it doesn't seem like UGA gives out that many large scholarships. Im fine with ending up in Atl after graduation, and so that's kind of been my motivation to consider UGA as a top choice.

Bolded is spot on. Retake, and it's not even close. Even for just these schools, retake for more money.

You hinted at being deterred from retaking because you think you need 6-7+ points to make a difference. This is the wrong way of thinking in two ways:

1) 6-7 points is not an unreasonable goal, in fact, many people have improved by 5-10 pts even just on this site. Even more importantly: you said own your PT scores were already in the 170 neighborhood. It should be obvious that you should study hard and retake rather than being discouraged for no good reason.

2) You are mistaken that 5 points (or less) LSAT improvement is worth sitting out a year for. Let's say you study hard and improve by 4 (166). That is a big difference in your law school prospects, and therefore employment/debt prospects. Play around on this website if you need examples: http://mylsn.info/r5azcs/

What you really, really should do is retake with all your might and reapply to UGA, Emory, SLU, WUSTL, and as broadly as you see fit. As mentioned, specialty rankings are worth very little, so don't get too hung up on SLU. Apply broadly to schools in multiple rankings peer groups. Good luck!

(St. Louis native here, very familiar with SLU & WUSTL)

[colonel4bin]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

Thanks for the response.

Dramatically better? I'm unsure about that...IMO low GPA (3.2) is keeping me out of higher schools unless I jump at least 6-7 points. Maybe I'm completely wrong, though.

What do you think the price range for UGA that is worth it? From what I can tell it doesn't seem like UGA gives out that many large scholarships. Im fine with ending up in Atl after graduation, and so that's kind of been my motivation to consider UGA as a top choice.

Bolded is spot on. Retake, and it's not even close. Even for just these schools, retake for more money.

You hinted at being deterred from retaking because you think you need 6-7+ points to make a difference. This is the wrong way of thinking in two ways:

1) 6-7 points is not an unreasonable goal, in fact, many people have improved by 5-10 pts even just on this site. Even more importantly: you said own your PT scores were already in the 170 neighborhood. It should be obvious that you should study hard and retake rather than being discouraged for no good reason.

2) You are mistaken that 5 points (or less) LSAT improvement is worth sitting out a year for. Let's say you study hard and improve by 4 (166). That is a big difference in your law school prospects, and therefore employment/debt prospects. Play around on this website if you need examples: http://mylsn.info/r5azcs/

What you really, really should do is retake with all your might and reapply to UGA, Emory, SLU, WUSTL, and as broadly as you see fit. As mentioned, specialty rankings are worth very little, so don't get too hung up on SLU. Apply broadly to schools in multiple rankings peer groups. Good luck!

(St. Louis native here, very familiar with SLU & WUSTL)

Thanks for all the advice. I had never seen mylsn and only been using info from lsn. That makes me lean more towards a september retake and next year's application cycle.

Maybe this isn't the right post to be asking these questions but I might as well throw it out there in case any of you have any knowledge. If I were to try for next application cycle instead, this opens up a lot of questions for me. For one, I'm 100% quitting my job and moving back towards family in May. I have some part-time work lined up for the summer, but nothing substanial that could get me through another year or so before law school. They were just plans to make some money, be able to travel, and do things with my SO before we were both in rigorous school schedules again. Any recommendations on what the move should be during only a year off? I thankfully have solid work experience under my belt, which has also allowed for extremely solid LORs.

My next question would be if I put it off for another year, that puts me going on my third year out of undergrad. Would mean being a 26yo IL and 28 coming out during graduation. Does that put me at a disadvantage for jobs after I graduate? I'm concerned that the money I might save on waiting another year to get better scholarship prospects might cost me larger money in the long run.

Thanks again for the help.

[baal hadad]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

Thanks for the response.

Dramatically better? I'm unsure about that...IMO low GPA (3.2) is keeping me out of higher schools unless I jump at least 6-7 points. Maybe I'm completely wrong, though.

What do you think the price range for UGA that is worth it? From what I can tell it doesn't seem like UGA gives out that many large scholarships. Im fine with ending up in Atl after graduation, and so that's kind of been my motivation to consider UGA as a top choice.

Bolded is spot on. Retake, and it's not even close. Even for just these schools, retake for more money.

You hinted at being deterred from retaking because you think you need 6-7+ points to make a difference. This is the wrong way of thinking in two ways:

1) 6-7 points is not an unreasonable goal, in fact, many people have improved by 5-10 pts even just on this site. Even more importantly: you said own your PT scores were already in the 170 neighborhood. It should be obvious that you should study hard and retake rather than being discouraged for no good reason.

2) You are mistaken that 5 points (or less) LSAT improvement is worth sitting out a year for. Let's say you study hard and improve by 4 (166). That is a big difference in your law school prospects, and therefore employment/debt prospects. Play around on this website if you need examples: http://mylsn.info/r5azcs/

What you really, really should do is retake with all your might and reapply to UGA, Emory, SLU, WUSTL, and as broadly as you see fit. As mentioned, specialty rankings are worth very little, so don't get too hung up on SLU. Apply broadly to schools in multiple rankings peer groups. Good luck!

(St. Louis native here, very familiar with SLU & WUSTL)

Thanks for all the advice. I had never seen mylsn and only been using info from lsn. That makes me lean more towards a september retake and next year's application cycle.

Maybe this isn't the right post to be asking these questions but I might as well throw it out there in case any of you have any knowledge. If I were to try for next application cycle instead, this opens up a lot of questions for me. For one, I'm 100% quitting my job and moving back towards family in May. I have some part-time work lined up for the summer, but nothing substanial that could get me through another year or so before law school. They were just plans to make some money, be able to travel, and do things with my SO before we were both in rigorous school schedules again. Any recommendations on what the move should be during only a year off? I thankfully have solid work experience under my belt, which has also allowed for extremely solid LORs.

My next question would be if I put it off for another year, that puts me going on my third year out of undergrad. Would mean being a 26yo IL and 28 coming out during graduation. Does that put me at a disadvantage for jobs after I graduate? I'm concerned that the money I might save on waiting another year to get better scholarship prospects might cost me larger money in the long run.

Thanks again for the help.

No age will not be disadvantage

[Fiero85]

Retake, and it's not even close. Even for just these schools, retake for more money.

You hinted at being deterred from retaking because you think you need 6-7+ points to make a difference. This is the wrong way of thinking in two ways:

1) 6-7 points is not an unreasonable goal, in fact, many people have improved by 5-10 pts even just on this site. Even more importantly: you said own your PT scores were already in the 170 neighborhood. It should be obvious that you should study hard and retake rather than being discouraged for no good reason.

2) You are mistaken that 5 points (or less) LSAT improvement is worth sitting out a year for. Let's say you study hard and improve by 4 (166). That is a big difference in your law school prospects, and therefore employment/debt prospects. Play around on this website if you need examples: http://mylsn.info/r5azcs/

What you really, really should do is retake with all your might and reapply to UGA, Emory, SLU, WUSTL, and as broadly as you see fit. As mentioned, specialty rankings are worth very little, so don't get too hung up on SLU. Apply broadly to schools in multiple rankings peer groups. Good luck!

(St. Louis native here, very familiar with SLU & WUSTL)

Thanks for all the advice. I had never seen mylsn and only been using info from lsn. That makes me lean more towards a september retake and next year's application cycle.

Maybe this isn't the right post to be asking these questions but I might as well throw it out there in case any of you have any knowledge. If I were to try for next application cycle instead, this opens up a lot of questions for me. For one, I'm 100% quitting my job and moving back towards family in May. I have some part-time work lined up for the summer, but nothing substantial that could get me through another year or so before law school. They were just plans to make some money, be able to travel, and do things with my SO before we were both in rigorous school schedules again. Any recommendations on what the move should be during only a year off? I thankfully have solid work experience under my belt, which has also allowed for extremely solid LORs.

My next question would be if I put it off for another year, that puts me going on my third year out of undergrad. Would mean being a 26yo IL and 28 coming out during graduation. Does that put me at a disadvantage for jobs after I graduate? I'm concerned that the money I might save on waiting another year to get better scholarship prospects might cost me larger money in the long run.

Thanks again for the help.

No problem at all, glad to help.
I understand your concerns about finding work and entering law school as soon as possible. However, retaking is still smart for you because:

1) Even assuming you only work part time and/or volunteer during your year off, retaking and improving can be viewed like a solid year's worth of tax-free income as a bonus for your efforts. Not only is your improved scholarship situation (if any) a tax free benefit, it is also an interest free benefit which is important too. Note that any loans you take out for school are going to be paid back with interest. So a scholarship bump of +$40,000 can be thought of as ~$45-50k in loans that you would have had to pay back. So you can see how easily retaking becomes worthwhile on its own. That being said, you definitely should at least try to find work of some kind. Make another thread or post in “Ask TLS” something along the lines of “what jobs should I apply to for my retake year?". Any employment that you do get is more $ and more things to talk about in future interviews. There's plenty of ways to work in your off year to make it worth doing.

2) Entering law school at 25-27 is actually the most common age and totally normal. If anything, that’s the sweet spot. A few years of job experience means (all else equal) a better resume, better attitude about law school work, less freaking out about the hiring process, and less noob mistakes in your first legal job. Employers don't value youth as much as young people think. Any starting age between 23 and 28 is a complete non-issue.

P.S. not that you would be likely to nix the travel plans, but just in case, I would recommend still taking that time you mentioned to travel and chill with your SO. Law school and legal work are going to suck for almost anyone, so take some time before to relax, whether this summer or next. studying for a retake is by no means a 40 hr per week endeavour. Just put the time in slowly and steadily. Best of luck, again!

[BigZuck]

Absolutely need to retake. Law school isn't going anywhere and a couple more points on the LSAT could give you dramatically better options. I'm a 3L at UGA and if you are comfortable staying in GA it is an okay option but not at that price.

Thanks for the response.

Dramatically better? I'm unsure about that...IMO low GPA (3.2) is keeping me out of higher schools unless I jump at least 6-7 points. Maybe I'm completely wrong, though.

What do you think the price range for UGA that is worth it? From what I can tell it doesn't seem like UGA gives out that many large scholarships. Im fine with ending up in Atl after graduation, and so that's kind of been my motivation to consider UGA as a top choice.

Bolded is spot on. Retake, and it's not even close. Even for just these schools, retake for more money.

You hinted at being deterred from retaking because you think you need 6-7+ points to make a difference. This is the wrong way of thinking in two ways:

1) 6-7 points is not an unreasonable goal, in fact, many people have improved by 5-10 pts even just on this site. Even more importantly: you said own your PT scores were already in the 170 neighborhood. It should be obvious that you should study hard and retake rather than being discouraged for no good reason.

2) You are mistaken that 5 points (or less) LSAT improvement is worth sitting out a year for. Let's say you study hard and improve by 4 (166). That is a big difference in your law school prospects, and therefore employment/debt prospects. Play around on this website if you need examples: http://mylsn.info/r5azcs/

What you really, really should do is retake with all your might and reapply to UGA, Emory, SLU, WUSTL, and as broadly as you see fit. As mentioned, specialty rankings are worth very little, so don't get too hung up on SLU. Apply broadly to schools in multiple rankings peer groups. Good luck!

(St. Louis native here, very familiar with SLU & WUSTL)

Thanks for all the advice. I had never seen mylsn and only been using info from lsn. That makes me lean more towards a september retake and next year's application cycle.

Maybe this isn't the right post to be asking these questions but I might as well throw it out there in case any of you have any knowledge. If I were to try for next application cycle instead, this opens up a lot of questions for me. For one, I'm 100% quitting my job and moving back towards family in May. I have some part-time work lined up for the summer, but nothing substanial that could get me through another year or so before law school. They were just plans to make some money, be able to travel, and do things with my SO before we were both in rigorous school schedules again. Any recommendations on what the move should be during only a year off? I thankfully have solid work experience under my belt, which has also allowed for extremely solid LORs.

My next question would be if I put it off for another year, that puts me going on my third year out of undergrad. Would mean being a 26yo IL and 28 coming out during graduation. Does that put me at a disadvantage for jobs after I graduate? I'm concerned that the money I might save on waiting another year to get better scholarship prospects might cost me larger money in the long run.

Thanks again for the help.

I was older than 28 when I decided to retake/reapply. So I was older than 28 as a 0L.

No, one year isn't going to make a difference, even in the slightest.