Choosing Schools Forum

[codys2592]

Good Afternoon,

I am considering four different schools (USC, Arizona, UT, and Houston).

COA:
USC - $154,992
Arizona - $73,017
UT - $198,492
Houston - $68,829

Financing:
$20,000 of my savings
$80,000 from college savings account in my family that I didn't use for UG
Rest will be loans

I'm from Texas with strong ties to New Mexico. I want to work in the Southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, Far West Texas) or Southern California.

Goals:

My goals are to work in a mid-size (maybe Biglaw but I'm not Biglaw or bust) firm and then move in-house after a couple years. I'm currently working at a very small firm but I couldn't see myself working at a firm with 2-5 attorneys for a long period of time. I also interned at a mid-size firm (50+ attorneys) this past summer. This internship was a good experience because I saw what it was a like to be an attorney in different departments (litigation, tax, real estate, etc.).

LSAT/GPA:
165/4.06

Taken the LSAT three times (June 2014, September 2014, and December 2014). I should have spread them out but I wanted to get into law school ASAP at the time.


I'm leaning towards USC but I don't know if it is worth $55,000 in debt.

Thanks for the advice!

[James.K.Polk]

The generic answer is 'retake' ... I'd say reapply. With a 4.0+ and 165, you should be into t14 territory. Did you apply to Berkeley?

[Otunga]

Could you stay at your firm a little while? I know it'd suck to wait just to retake for a non-guaranteed higher score, but you could potentially attend a t14 for almost free that way (without going through savings). Otherwise go to Arizona or Houston depending on geographic preference - at least you'd be debt free.

[Trippel]

Wow, wait a few years and retake. You won't be too old if you do. Your career options will explode with a JD + no debt from a T-14.

edited because I can't type.

[codys2592]

Hey guys,

I had thought about retaking next September/October. Do y'all think two years is enough time to forget all they practice questions? I went through every practice test starting with preptest 50 and I used Mike Kim's LSAT trainer.
I floated the idea of maybe staying at the firm longer than this year. I told them upfront that I would be going to law school in August 2016 but I think they would be fine with me staying longer.

[Trippel]

Hey guys,

I had thought about retaking next September/October. Do y'all think two years is enough time to forget all they practice questions? I went through every practice test starting with preptest 50 and I used Mike Kim's LSAT trainer.
I floated the idea of maybe staying at the firm longer than this year. I told them upfront that I would be going to law school in August 2016 but I think they would be fine with me staying longer.

I think two years is enough time to forget about most of the practice tests. Even if you sort of remember the questions, I don't think it will hold you back. The main thing is to practice your technique. What section is most problematic for you?

[Hornet2011]

Unless I am totally missing something those LSATs you took were in 2014. You can take the LSAT 3 times in two years from each retake's test date,therefore you can take this 2016 June, Oct and Dec. You should sit out and study for those three tests and take your best t14 or Texas / USC / UCLA deal.

[codys2592]

Logic games by far. I went -10 on lg and -8/-9 on the other three sections combined.

[Trippel]

Logic games by far. I went -10 on lg and -8/-9 on the other three sections combined.

This is good news, actually. LG is usually the easiest section to improve on. There are a few guides on TLS about how to go from -10 to -0. Powerscore's LG Bible really helped me.

[codys2592]

Unless I am totally missing something those LSATs you took were in 2014. You can take the LSAT 3 times in two years from each retake's test date,therefore you can take this 2016 June, Oct and Dec. You should sit out and study for those three tests and take your best t14 or Texas / USC / UCLA deal.

You are correct. They were in 2014 so I could retake this June. I would probably need to start studying at the beginning of March if I planned on taking the June lsat.

My offer from USC, 40k a year, isn't bad but I'm trying to negotiate more with them since COL is so expensive. I don't know how high my lsat would need to be to get 50k+ a year though.

[BasilHallward]

How in the world does UT cost that much?? Are you not a resident? And they should give you 5-10k in scholarship. But, yeah, retake and go to UT for free or many t14s for free

[codys2592]

How in the world does UT cost that much?? Are you not a resident? And they should give you 5-10k in scholarship. But, yeah, retake and go to UT for free or many t14s for free

Tution is ~34,000, living is ~21,000. The COA is including tuition raises and interest from loans. I didn't get any scholarship money either so that doesn't help.

[Hornet2011]

It seems to me that you are only considering these schools at these prices as you are unsure of your ability to
Improve your LSAT while waiting another year. I can tell you from personal experience you will probably be in a better position now that you are out of school to do better on the LSAT today. I studied very hard while in college for the LSAT and only managed a high 150s score. Fast forward a few years, I sat down cold and was scoring low 160s. Lots of studying later I PT'd consistently 168-173. Personally I had some bad luck with tests with a couple tough curves and one cancel due to a dumb mistake, but still got a 167. Point of the story is a feel a 167 would easily get you big money at Texas with you GPA and probably in to T14s with good money if you apply broadly. In my opinion it is worth the year to sit out and have a great chance with much better options. I am sure with 3 more retakes and consistent studying you will nail at least a 167

[codys2592]

I can tell you from personal experience you will probably be in a better position now that you are out of school to do better on the LSAT today. I studied very hard while in college for the LSAT and only managed a high 150s score. Fast forward a few years, I sat down cold and was scoring low 160s. Lots of studying later I PT'd consistently 168-173.

I completely agree with you on this. I think now that I have a set schedule (unlike my random sleep/school schedule from before) I will be better prepared on test day. My random schedule hurt me on test day as I was going to sleep around 1 or 2 a.m. the week before the test and then tried going to sleep at 10 the night before. My roommates also had a small party the night before the test so I couldn't fall asleep.

I am sure with 3 more retakes and consistent studying you will nail at least a 167

I agree but I don't know how it would look to adcomms if I had 6! tests on my record. There is little to no data on this so it would be impossible to predict.

[BasilHallward]

How in the world does UT cost that much?? Are you not a resident? And they should give you 5-10k in scholarship. But, yeah, retake and go to UT for free or many t14s for free

Tution is ~34,000, living is ~21,000. The COA is including tuition raises and interest from loans. I didn't get any scholarship money either so that doesn't help.

I'm still surprised that you didn't receive around a 10k scholarship for that monster GPA and solid LSAT (although below median). Seems off, but UT is strange w/r/t scholarship.

[codys2592]

Yeah, I thought I would get some money (at least 5 k a year) based on previous cycles.

[Hornet2011]

OP, I would not be concerned about 6 LSATs. I have 5, and so far I have been very fortunate with T20 acceptances with substantial money (100k+) with a mid 3.X GPA. I haven't heard back from the T14 yet, but did apply late (early January). I did not apply to USC or UCLA and am still waiting on my Texas response (Also January app).

Truth be told, I think the number of LSATs does not matter. If anything it shows a determination to be any lawyer. Some may argue with me on this last point and we will just have to agree to disagree.

[fliptrip]

OP, I'd sit it out another year and take another stab or two at the LSAT. Here's a few thoughts, some of which are just affirming what others have said:

1. You have a 4.0+ GPA...you will not have to move much on the LSAT to get some great options. For instance, 4.0/168 is potential Dillard territory at UVA and you would be in for sure with good money at several other T14s. If you can push a little further and get to 170, you're looking at H and S territory with a non-negligible chance. A 165 is -18 on an average difficulty LSAT. To get to 170, you just have to get 6 more questions right. Just 6!!!!!

2. LG is the easiest part of the test to improve on, as many others have already stated here. Having rock-solid habits along with strong discipline as you attack the games at the very least should guarantee you being able to get 3 games out of the 4 perfectly. That should immediately take your LG to -5 at most, and -3 in the best case. Now, maybe your speed will come along to the point that you can do all four games perfectly and come out with a -0 or -1, but take it from someone who's made it that you do not have to get a -0 or -1 on LG to score 170.

[tsujimoto74]

Logic games by far. I went -10 on lg and -8/-9 on the other three sections combined.

This is good news, actually. LG is usually the easiest section to improve on. There are a few guides on TLS about how to go from -10 to -0. Powerscore's LG Bible really helped me.

+1. I only used the Powerscore book to study, studied for something like 4-6 months, and I went -1 on LG. I found it was definitely the section I improved most on through studying; I had the hardest time moving up my score on RC. OP would only need to boost his/her LSAT by a few points to open up some much better options.