Help on Deciding Forum

[LawSchoolHopeful77]

Here's the current scenario:

STCL: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $22,150)
TX Tech: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $20,000)
U of H: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $16,000)
Baylor: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $45,000)
SMU: Pending
UT: Pending
ASU: Pending
OU: Pending
Georgia: Pending

All of these scholarships are renewable for the entire 3 years. Any and all advice is welcome.
First generation law student in my family so this is all fairly new to me.
Would like to stay in Texas which is why most of the schools are Texas schools.

Thank you in advance to any kind soul who helps!

[Nachoo2019]

Here's the current scenario:

STCL: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $22,150)
TX Tech: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $20,000)
U of H: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $16,000)
Baylor: Accepted (Dean's scholarship of $45,000)
SMU: Pending
UT: Pending
ASU: Pending
OU: Pending
Georgia: Pending

All of these scholarships are renewable for the entire 3 years. Any and all advice is welcome.
First generation law student in my family so this is all fairly new to me.
Would like to stay in Texas which is why most of the schools are Texas schools.

Thank you in advance to any kind soul who helps!

You are not even halfway through your cycle and you are waiting on some good schools. You should come back to ask this question once you've heard from most of the schools you applied to. Any advice given today could be void if you get in to UT tomorrow...

[lnh819]

Texas Tech 3L here! I advise against Baylor in any circumstances. Go to SMU/Tech if you want Dallas. Go to Houston/STCL if you want Houston. Go to UT if you might one day leave the state or have BigLaw/clerkship goals. Do not go out of state - you'll be paying out-of-state tuition and will likely be stuck in that state forever. Oh - and renewable conditional scholarships (i.e.: have to be top 50%) are a terrible scam. I know at Tech, 40% of students end up losing theirs and not getting all three years worth. Be prepared to bail after a year if you lose it or take on $40-90k more debt that you intended.

[Mullens]

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[totesTheGoat]

My opinion:

Forget about OU, ASU, Georgia... your chances of coming back to Texas from an out of state school, especially those out of state schools, is slim. So much of law school is about networking and developing connections... something you can't do from 300 miles away.

STCL plays second fiddle in the Houston market to UH. Tech plays second fiddle in the Dallas market to SMU. UT places well everywhere in Texas and does well across the country.

Generally, my rule of thumb is that you shouldn't go to Tech or STCL if you're getting at least 1/4 scholarship from SMU or UH. Similarly, don't go to UH or SMU if you're getting at least 1/4 at UT. (I didn't follow my own advice, but I was in a somewhat unique situation)

If you got into UH with money, I'd expect that you will get into SMU with some money, and you have a good chance of getting into UT either at sticker or with a little money. From there, it's about using those three schools' offers to get your scholarship as high as you can (SMU won't negotiate much, and won't go past 1/2 scholarship). Like I said above, if you can get at or above 1/4 scholarship at UT, go there. If not, go to UH if you want to work in Houston and SMU if you want to work in Dallas.

[BigZuck]

My opinion:

Forget about OU, ASU, Georgia... your chances of coming back to Texas from an out of state school, especially those out of state schools, is slim. So much of law school is about networking and developing connections... something you can't do from 300 miles away.

STCL plays second fiddle in the Houston market to UH. Tech plays second fiddle in the Dallas market to SMU. UT places well everywhere in Texas and does well across the country.

Generally, my rule of thumb is that you shouldn't go to Tech or STCL if you're getting at least 1/4 scholarship from SMU or UH. Similarly, don't go to UH or SMU if you're getting at least 1/4 at UT. (I didn't follow my own advice, but I was in a somewhat unique situation)

If you got into UH with money, I'd expect that you will get into SMU with some money, and you have a good chance of getting into UT either at sticker or with a little money. From there, it's about using those three schools' offers to get your scholarship as high as you can (SMU won't negotiate much, and won't go past 1/2 scholarship). Like I said above, if you can get at or above 1/4 scholarship at UT, go there. If not, go to UH if you want to work in Houston and SMU if you want to work in Dallas.

I go to UT. In state with 1/4 scholarship would leave someone in about 150k debt assuming they have to debt finance everything else. I had about a 2/3 scholarship and I didn't take out full COL loans and I'm pushing close to 100K debt. UT isn't worth 150K debt IMO.

OP- You've got to answer all of Mullens' questions before we can help you here.

[totesTheGoat]

I go to UT. In state with 1/4 scholarship would leave someone in about 150k debt assuming they have to debt finance everything else. I had about a 2/3 scholarship and I didn't take out full COL loans and I'm pushing close to 100K debt. UT isn't worth 150K debt IMO.

Good point. I should've mentioned this in my post. Just because I'm describing the cutoffs to move up to the next tier of school doesn't mean that it's an objectively good idea to go to that higher tier school at 1/4 scholarship. 1/4 scholarship at any Texas school is setting you up for a world of hurt when you don't get biglaw.

[A@M_or_bust]

I advise against Baylor in any circumstances. Go to SMU/Tech if you want Dallas.

Eh, this is biased and misleading. As far as I understand, Texas Tech has very little (the rare exception) to no pull in Dallas. T14, UT, & SMU have Dallas locked down pretty well. Tech is not a bad option considering the tuition is low and your scholarship is generous, but expect to come out making a very modest salary because you would be all but closed off from big law and federal clerkships (7.5% got one of these two).

Like the above poster said, you have many pending offers - the main ones being UT and SMU.

What are your LSAT and gpa numbers?

Try to get in at UT if you want the most options; the UT network owns this state.

Full disclosure: I go to UT.

[eagle2a]

What's your LSAT/GPA? There are only three schools you should go to in Texas: UT/SMU/UH, the latter two only on a substantial scholarship.

I go to SMU

[totesTheGoat]

I advise against Baylor in any circumstances. Go to SMU/Tech if you want Dallas.

Eh, this is biased and misleading. As far as I understand, Texas Tech has very little (the rare exception) to no pull in Dallas.

I wasn't going to mention it because it turned into a pissing contest last time I brought it up, but i've met 3 or 4x more Baylor grads than Tech grads in Dallas. The vast majority of lawyers that I've met in Dallas are UT/SMU/T-14 grads.

What's your LSAT/GPA? There are only three schools you should go to in Texas: UT/SMU/UH, the latter two all three only on a substantial scholarship.

[A@M_or_bust]

Yeah, I am not surprised by your experience. I would say Baylor and Texas Tech have more or less the same pull in Dallas, which is very little. I would suggest Tech over Baylor simply because the culture at Baylor seems beyond depressing and it would likely be cheaper to attend Tech.

[totesTheGoat]

Tech also does really well in west Texas, which is good if that's your thing. The panhandle is pretty much exclusively Tech territory, and if you're looking for a rural/smaller town feel, going to Tech with some $$ and then working in Lubbock isn't too bad of a fit.

I'm not sure that Baylor has a similar carveout of territory like Tech does. They get beat by SMU to the north and east, they get beat by UH to the south and east, and they get beat by UT to the south and west (and in all directions, to be honest). Baylor's home turf is really just Waco.

[BasilHallward]

Come back to us when you have real options to weigh. The obvious choice is to attend UT, however. Also, you should be registered to retake the LSAT, if your score is not in the upper 160s. Squeeze as much scholarship out of UT as possible (at least 10k + need-based aid) with in-state tuition is a fair deal IMO. Live cheaply. It's doable in Austin, contrary to some beliefs.

I attend UT.

[LawSchoolHopeful77]

Southern Methodist University
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $24,000 per year
Tuition: $49,962
COL: (Would live at home)
Est. Yearly Cost: $29,962

Baylor University
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $45,000 per year
Tuition: $55,547
COL: $21,246
Yearly Cost: $31,793

University of Houston
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $16,000 per year (plus $10,000 for the first year)
Tuition: $29,784
COL: $19,460
Yearly Cost: ($22,244 for first year) then $33,244

South Texas College of Law
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $22,500 per year
Tuition: $29,490
COL: $21,900
Yearly Cost: $28,890

Texas Tech School of Law
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $20,000 per year
Tuition: $23,262
COL: $16,060
Yearly Cost: $19,322

University of Texas
Decision: Rejected

Arizona State College of Law
Decision: Pending


Tech, South Texas and Baylor have GPA stipulations whereas UH and SMU guaranteed the money as long as I was enrolled as a full-time student.

I plan on financing all of this through whatever loans, grants and additional scholarships I can qualify for. I am originally from Dallas and would like to practice in Texas. I went to UT-Austin undergrad so I have ties in Dallas and Austin (with some friends in Houston).

My general career goals (as of now) are tax law, civil litigation and immigration law. I am not a big law-or-bust person, but I would like to work in middle-law as opposed to small-law if possible.

Any and all advice is welcome, and like I mentioned above, I am a first-generation law student in my family so most of this is fairly new to me. Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to consider my request.

[trebekismyhero]

Southern Methodist University
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $24,000 per year
Tuition: $49,962
COL: (Would live at home)
Est. Yearly Cost: $29,962

Baylor University
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $45,000 per year
Tuition: $55,547
COL: $21,246
Yearly Cost: $31,793

University of Houston
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $16,000 per year (plus $10,000 for the first year)
Tuition: $29,784
COL: $19,460
Yearly Cost: ($22,244 for first year) then $33,244

South Texas College of Law
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $22,500 per year
Tuition: $29,490
COL: $21,900
Yearly Cost: $28,890

Texas Tech School of Law
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $20,000 per year
Tuition: $23,262
COL: $16,060
Yearly Cost: $19,322

University of Texas
Decision: Rejected

Arizona State College of Law
Decision: Pending


Tech, South Texas and Baylor have GPA stipulations whereas UH and SMU guaranteed the money as long as I was enrolled as a full-time student.

I plan on financing all of this through whatever loans, grants and additional scholarships I can qualify for. I am originally from Dallas and would like to practice in Texas. I went to UT-Austin undergrad so I have ties in Dallas and Austin (with some friends in Houston).

My general career goals (as of now) are tax law, civil litigation and immigration law. I am not a big law-or-bust person, but I would like to work in middle-law as opposed to small-law if possible.

Any and all advice is welcome, and like I mentioned above, I am a first-generation law student in my family so most of this is fairly new to me. Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to consider my request.

Based on your goals you should retake the LSAT and try to get into UT. But as of now, I would say SMU since you can live at home to keep costs down is the best bet.

[Nagster5]

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[totesTheGoat]

Southern Methodist University
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $24,000 per year
Tuition: $49,962
COL: (Would live at home)
Est. Yearly Cost: $29,962$25,962


Baylor University


University of Houston
Amount: Dean's Scholarship of $16,000 per year (plus $10,000 for the first year)
Tuition: $29,784
COL: $19,460
Yearly Cost: ($22,244 for first year) then $33,244

South Texas College of Law


Texas Tech School of Law


Arizona State College of Law

Your only two competitive choices are SMU and UH. Baylor, STCL, Tech, and ASU are all not worth consideration based on your goals and your other offers.

Assuming that your LSAT isn't holding you back, come to SMU. You have the ties here, you have the advantage of living at home, and you want to stay in TX. Unless you REALLY want to live in Houston, I think it makes sense to come to SMU.

Fair warning, they're not going to negotiate on the scholarship. However, there is money to be had from other sources if you put in the time and effort to find it.

[Dr. Nefario]

If no retake, SMU, UH isn't worth the extra money if you wanna stay in Dallas. Dedman pulls its weight in the metro.

[BigZuck]

Is yearly cost just Tuition+COL-Scholarship? And then just multiply by 3? That's not really how it works, your debt will be way more than you anticipate. Debt at every school will be 100ishK+, which isn't justifiable IMO.

What is your GPA? I think this might be a retake or don't go situation.

[kiwi4president]

Anecdotal, but I graduated from UH last May with $75k in debt. Granted I worked part-time at small law firms throughout 2L and 3L year for $15-$20 an hour. I had $10k a year scholarship and if you're instate Texas usually gives out a $5k grant to graduate students. I got that grant each of the three years in school.

What I'm getting at here is that $100k in debt is not a given with the kind of scholarships OP is getting and with a bit of frugality. Probably still wasn't worth $75k though either way.

[BigZuck]

Anecdotal, but I graduated from UH last May with $75k in debt. Granted I worked part-time at small law firms throughout 2L and 3L year for $15-$20 an hour. I had $10k a year scholarship and if you're instate Texas usually gives out a $5k grant to graduate students. I got that grant each of the three years in school.

What I'm getting at here is that $100k in debt is not a given with the kind of scholarships OP is getting and with a bit of frugality. Probably still wasn't worth $75k though either way.

Both of the bolded are pretty abnormal for law students based on my (limited and perhaps totally irrelevant) experience. But sure, if the OP works part-time and is careful about expenses then it could happen.

The OP isn't factoring in tuition increases (which might not be happening at UH) and interest (which is huge) and potential summer cost of living and probably some other stuff that gets factored into the grim law school debt stew. I stand by it- I think the OP will be in around 20K more debt than the OP thinks they will be in

eta: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hilit=debt