UNH, Cardozo or BU?? Forum

[s41991]

Reading all these posts about T14 being the only schools considered "worth it" is really starting to freak me out. I can go to UNH with a full ride, Cardozo with 25k/yr or BU, but I would have to pay sticker...or I can retake. I got a 158 with a 3.63 GPA, but I have had two cancellations before that and I would rather not wait...I turn 25 in April and would like to graduate sooner rather than later. If I do well I will try to transfer to a T14 school...but that's just a huge maybe. Any advice?

[mornincounselor]

I think there are a number of non-t14 strong regional schools that are very much worth attending. But, they have to be priced correctly, they have to be in a market you wish to work in, and you have to be willing to hustle and seek out low prestige, low-paying work as a default.

BU at sticker and Cardozo with 25k/yr both fail the first prong. Are you from New Hampshire? Do you really want to work long term there? If your other options are outside the state, I assume it isn't your singular goal to end up in NH. Then, I can't really recommend you going there either.

Transferring is a luxury that is available to very few students. Most law students will tell you it is much easier to improve on the LSAT than to be in the top 10% of a law school class.

There is tons of incredible free and low-priced LSAT material available on these forums or linked to therein. With a 3.63 you can get into some fantastic schools with a score in the mid-160s. By far your best option, imo, is to sit-out and retake.

[chickensoup1234]

Nice post counselor

[cron1834]

Reading all these posts about T14 being the only schools considered "worth it" is really starting to freak me out. I can go to UNH with a full ride, Cardozo with 25k/yr or BU, but I would have to pay sticker...or I can retake. I got a 158 with a 3.63 GPA, but I have had two cancellations before that and I would rather not wait...I turn 25 in April and would like to graduate sooner rather than later. If I do well I will try to transfer to a T14 school...but that's just a huge maybe. Any advice?

Mornincounselor is correct. There are some non-T14 schools worth going to if you have huge tuition discounts, but I don't think these three schools at these prices make any sense. Unless you're tied to NH and want to work a small-time job there. If that's the case, then knock yourself out.

[s41991]

I live in AZ. I also got accepted to ASU, but I don't particularly want to go there. And I've never been to NH but I'd rather end up working in a bigger city on the east coast. And my greatest fear is sitting out and not doing better or possibly doing worst because I get crazy bad anxiety on standardized tests. Ugh. Guess I've got a few things to think about

[totesTheGoat]

Reading all these posts about T14 being the only schools considered "worth it" is really starting to freak me out.

Most of the good points have already been made, but I'll reiterate them. It's not that T14s are the only schools that are worth it. It's that the average law student is taking a progressively more dangerous risk the further down the list they go. Since you can't really predict what your class rank is going to be prior to starting law school, your best resource is the statistical data (like the data that law school transparency has put together).

Once you start looking outside the top 50 schools (give or take), you have about a 15-20% chance of graduating with a job making over $70k a year, and about a 25-30% chance of not having a full-time legal job upon graduation. For the average 0L (who doesn't already have a job lined up, and is going to be taking between $150k and $200k in debt), the most common result out of these T2 and lower schools is a $60k job trying to pay down $200k in debt. In other words, you won't be able to reap the monetary rewards of your legal education for a decade after you graduate, because you're siphoning off a significant portion of your income to pay down your debt.

That's why, depending on the risk tolerance of each person, people say "T-14 or bust" or "T1 or bust." It's just too much of a gamble at T2 and lower schools.

I can go to UNH with a full ride, Cardozo with 25k/yr or BU, but I would have to pay sticker

Never, ever ever ever ever ever... ever... pay sticker. That should be a non-starter for you. The absolute bare minimum that you should accept is a 1/4 scholarship, with a 1/2 scholarship or better being your goal. This is because of the same risk analysis as above. If you're talking about $80k in loans instead of $200k, your analysis is different.

...or I can retake. I got a 158 with a 3.63 GPA, but I have had two cancellations before that and I would rather not wait...I turn 25 in April and would like to graduate sooner rather than later.

Don't rush it. Your impatience isn't a good reason to go to a bad school for too much money and spend the next 13 years paying for it. Retake the exam, sit out this cycle, and you should be able to get into a better school. Your GPA is T14 material if you get your LSAT up to the mid/upper 160s. The LSAT is learnable, use the resources on TLS to boost your score. I turned 25 right before my 1L year... it's really not a big deal. They don't even consider somebody your age a "non-traditional" student.

If I do well I will try to transfer to a T14 school...but that's just a huge maybe. Any advice?

Don't do this. You have the GPA to get into a T14 school. Transferring into a T14 is a massive risk. What happens if you end up around median at your T2 school? Then you're stuck. You seem to have an optimistic picture of how this is all going to work out, and I'm trying to poke a needle into that balloon.

Generally, don't do things assuming that you're going to be a top 10% student, and don't do things assuming that you're going to get a biglaw job. Assume that you're going to be a median student and making $60k/year at graduation. Then make your decisions based on that. Does BU make sense at sticker if you graduate at median and get a $60k job?

If you end up doing better, great! You'll have ample opportunities. However, you don't want to set yourself up for failure by rushing into things with an overly optimistic point of view.

[Alive97]

The biggest challenge for someone in your position is probably jettisoning your preconceived notions about law school, the hype you've given to those around you that you're going to law school, and your own desire to go, perhaps built up and worked towards over many years. The financial probabilities are undeniable and trump all of that. The only valid counter argument is one that addresses the financial realities head on. Retake.